Hey Guys, Greetings from Ohio. I have a 63 Fairlane that I have converted over to my interpretation of a Thunderbolt. A nicely built 390 to 427 specs, Dual quad Holleys on mid rise factory intake, Full roller assembly, mild Comp Cam, Large Aluminum Radiator, Mechanical Fan and Electronic on front of radiator, MSD Ignition Components, Cast Heads, Port/Polish cleaned up, Built C6 with external Derale Oil cooler with fan, etc the whole 9 yards. No Radiator Surge tank currently installed...Overflow, but no FE style surge. I have an absolutely nagging slow overheat engine issue that I simply cant get rid of after a few years. Im afraid of the responses as I probably know what I am going to hear, but I want to hear everybody's thoughts first in diagnosing what may be the issue before I really start tearing into it. Any BB FE Ford guys out there that can weigh in? Timing is on the higher end of spec, but is nothing crazy. Somewhere around 39-40 total timing if I remember correctly from the last time I checked. Seems to be running a little rich lately as I have played with the dual quads. (but the overheat has always been there) Car will run, fire and drive great but that temp needle just keeps slowly rising. Radiator used to have trans cooler inside and I since removed to make way for the external cooler to see if temps would lower due to high heat trans fluid temps. While it helped, it just delays the inevitable. Currently with 180 stat, I cruise on the road 50-65 mph and it plugs along at 170-180 degrees for 10 minutes or so. Then slowly rises after that for 15 minutes until the temp gauge shows 210-215 and I start to quickly find a place to stay for a bit. Plugs look good. No detonation, slightly rich as expected with me recently playing the carbs, etc. Not currently running a PVC or external oil breather as I have smooth aluminum valve covers on the car. I am ready to pull my hair out...Any thoughts? Thanks for the help.
Hot air has nowhere to go? That engine probably fills the Fairlane from fender to fender. I would try taking the hood off and driving it like that, see if it fixes the problem. If it does, cut some vents in the fender liners to let the air out.
Not to insult your knowledge but is the t stat in correctly. i have seen thermostats installed backwards cause this problem.
No insult whatsoever when trouble shooting...I'm 98% sure (I'll leave 2% in there so I don't admit fault when you say I told you so.) lol in all seriousness I'm pretty certain were good there but will surely check as I think I'm going to drain radiator and place in just a simple reducer plate and remove stat. 3.90 on a ford 9
Hit it with a block checker and make sure there is no combustion in the coolant. I know thats not what you want to hear but its quick and easy to do. I think RPOPE has it right. .02
Not currently running a PVC or external oil breather as I have smooth aluminum valve covers on the car. [/QUOTE] You do have some sort of breather right? Through the intake fill tube at least?
Nice looking Fairlane. Are you really running hot, or just indicating hot. I'm running an FE in my 31 coupe, and previously in a 427 67 Fairlane, and in this hot weather, it runs around 200-210, which, per my experience with FE's, is about normal when the temps are in the mid/high 90's. They tend to run way over the proverbial 180 degrees we all want our engines to run. I assume you have an electrical water temp gauge. I also have one and discovered that I was reading about 15-30 degrees cooler than indicated by the water temp gauge. Have you checked your engine temp with an IR heat gun? Does the engine actually overheat, steam etc, or just indicate hot? Theres a thread on here where I added a couple of 10 ohm resistors and a zenor diode to my indicator to reduce the indication down closer to actual temp. It was NOT my idea. I got the info from "BobF" from Poway, Ca, here on the HAMB. After adding the resistors, my gauge was a LOT more accurate. Search for the "SW wings water temp gauge inaccurate" post. Theres a lot of FE experience here on the HAMB, so I'm sure some of those guys will chime in with more ideas and info. BOutlaw
Do you have a shroud on the mech fan? I imagine so, just had to ask. I think now you know why ford put that ungainly looking surge tank hanging between the engine and radiator, add that backinto the system, make it higher than the thermohousing or the radiator inlet - it needs to be the highest point. What heat range plug? It might be on the hot side and allows heat to remain in the engine. A plug just hot enough to keep from fouling while idling can reduce engine temps. Try a -8 heat range. Try a product called -40Below made by Problend, follow instructions and add it to the radiator. It will reduce engine temps as well. If your engine timing is overly retarded it will raise engine temps. There, that is about every engine heat related tidbit that i can think of, i hope some of it is helpful.
Thanks BOutlaw...From my experience, any properly built mild BBF FE should run in the 180-200 range no problem. I havent purchased an IR Temp laser yet, but that also may be on the near birthday list. I have heard the issue with guage being slightly off, but when the gauge reads 225/230/235 and looks to continue to climb, I start to get worried and slam the car in park. Even if the gauge is off by 10% youre still moving above that 205/210 threshold. It surely has puked as well on extremely hot days. On my aluminum radiator, running an 18-21 cap.
You do have some sort of breather right? Through the intake fill tube at least?[/QUOTE] Yes through the intake fill of course. Just cleaned up and removed the other items.
Absoltuely, a block checker is coming down the line if running the car without the hood doesnt help. I agree with RPOPE and I will definetly try this in the next couple of days.
Since you have an ir gun, read the temp differntial across the radiator by checking the upper hose vs the lower hose. It should be 10deg or more, if not then it is a radiator problem, if it is then you have an engine related problem.
I appreciate a good FE engine and enthusiast. I have a little trouble with your total ign adv. If you have not, I would come down at least a couple of degrees. Could the water flow be restricted enough to prevent sufficient cooling with continuous running, like down the highway. I would confirm the lower hose is not collapsing. You can use the internal coil wire support to prevent this. I guess with a C-6, 4.11s you are turning some rpm at 60-70mph, what ratio pullies do you have on the water pump. I doubt it is turning too slow, but might be cavitating. That is just a shot in the dark. Also, what are you running for a waterpump?, stock, modified, aftermarket? I would think you can rule out air flow across the radiator, with the 2 fans. The pusher fan is not blocking off too much air is it? Not something you want to hear, but I have heard of thin cyl walls from over boring creating overheating. If you have not add a bottle of Water Wetter, not a fix for a definite problem, but sure improves the cooling. good luck,
I'm no expert either but in my 62 galaxie with the stock 352 it runs right around 200 and creeps close to 210 on the 90+ days if I'm in stop and go traffic. I've been told this is fairly normal for an FE.
I see you have a tear drop hood scoop. That should be plenty to let the hot air escape from the engine compartment. I would try a triple pass type radiator, fan shroud sealed all the way around and a non flexing fan. I had a '65 Biscayne with a .60 over 454 with iron heads. I was worried about over heating in traffic so I installed an aluminum hi-flo water pump, a 160 thermostat with bleed holes, an aluminum radiator and a factory a/c 7 bladed fan with thermo coupler. The car ran at 180 except on really hot days (90+) in stop and go traffic. She would creep up to 210, but didn't puke. My '52 Chevy ran at 180 but I was going to install a/c, so I wanted the best radiator. I got the triple pass 4 row copper/brass from US Radiator. With the a/c going in traffic, the hotest she has gotten in traffic is 180.
In your opening statement you say 390 built to 427 spec's. Did you actually bore a 390 block.186 over stock to std. 427 bore? If so did you then do a sonic test to see how much cyl. wall thickness was left? Couldn't be much left. Could be the issue. The Wizzard
I think you be right. Also, with a properly spaced mechanical fan and shroud why would you then add an electric fan? I have actually cured heating issues by removing the extra (unnecessary) electric fans that seem to just block air flow. I hear you guys already, just think about it,ok? I have also taken the generic Electric fans with the plastic circular basket mount system that work poorly, cut every other bar out of them, increase the air flow and improve cooling which proved to me they restrict air flow. The Wizzard
I have to agree. I see no need for an electric fan. They drove these engines in the 60s (it got hot in the 60s too!) Electric fans are crutches for people that can't correctly fix the problem. I'm cooling my FE with a factory 56 Ford 292 radiator. No shroud. My buddies have FEs in mid 60s Fords with no special heating apparatus added that did not come with their cars. I'm just running a standard 4 blade fan and it runs all day long in the garage and never gets over 190 with a brand new tight engine.
ive got the same car and engine. mine stays around 180. its got about 79,000 miles on her.when it gets to around100 outside then it heads on up to 200.
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