I want to use the cloth braided (copper stranded) core spark plug wire with an electronic ignition distributor. I have the often-loathed Taylor Vertex mag-look distributor. Anyway, in the instructions for the distributor it says plain as day that I am supposed to use supression type wire. I know that people have used the cloth braided type wire with HEI distributors with success, so I'm going to give it a shot. Now, to my point: As I was trying to make a decision on which plug wire boots to run, I ran across these NGK boots with a built in resistor: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/performance/resistor_covers.asp http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/docs/Resistor_Covers.pdf Is there any reason I can't run say, the "LB05FP" NGK boot on the copper-stranded core wire to fight the RFI it's going to give off? Is 5000 ohms of RF resistance too much? I'm not an expert on anything electronic, so an "electronics for dummies" explanation on why I should or shouldn't do this would be much appreciated. Thanks! -Brian
Here is a photo of one of the boots. They aren't super tradtional in appearance, but I think they look pretty good in a sort of modern Rajah boot/ Champion boot kind of way. These are apparently for use with motorcycles, snowmobiles, ATVs etc. I don't know why they couldn't be used in an automotive V8 application, though?
The issue with the mag look alike is that they use a pertronix module sitting on top of a redone GM style ignition coil. They are boarderline excessive interference to start with , without adding any additional ????
So I take it you're saying that I'm making a bad idea even worse? Any idea if the NGK resistor covers/ boots would help any with RFI if I were using a different HEI distributor and the braided wires? You were one of the guys I was hoping would reply. Thanks for taking the time.
The reason I was asking about RFI protection is for the module in the Taylor/Vertex distributor. I want to run the braided plug wire for the look, but I'm already nervous about the reliability of the distributor. And as you said, the way these things are built, more interference is not going to be a good thing. I was thinking the NGK boots would cancel out some of the RFI, but I have no idea what ohm range would be good (1k, 5k, or 10k), or if the wires are still going to give off too much RFI for the module to survive, even with the resistor boots. Honestly, at this point I'm thinking about forgoing the distributor altogether and running a magneto instead. But, I'll probably at least give the mag-look distributor a shot since I already have it. The car already has a quick-change, so noise isn't really the concern.
I ran these cloth covered solid core wires with tan silicone boots on my coupe with a stock chevy distributor and a complete Pertronics package and had no problem at all...
Larry, I also used the cloth wires on the Texas Playboy '32 Roadster without any problem. I used a Mallory dual point coverted to electronic with a Pertronix Ignitor...first with Rajah clips on the plugs, and later with silicone boots when I noticed some arcing problems. I liked the way they look, and wanted to use them again, but reading the paperwork for the Taylor/ Vertex distributor, and the posts here about the bad experiences with this particular distributor has me a little spooked.
Ok, sorry...misunderstood. I thought you were wondering about the reliability of Pertronics and solid core wires.
That is sort of my problem. The RFI (radio frequency interference) from solid or stranded copper core plug wires supposedly screws with the electronic ignition module in HEI distributors, in this case a Pertronix module. I guess RFI and microprocessors don't get along. But now that you mention it, the mag-look distributor has a Pertronix module in it also. If those wires worked OK in both instances we just talked about, I don't know why it wouldn't work with the mag-look distributors. Guess I'll give it a shot when the time comes...I still don't know if those trick NGK resistor boots would help the ignition module live though.
I put 4800 miles on the coupe with that system in it before I sold it 4 years ago, and the new owner still has it in there...so...?
Bass, I work at a Motorcycle/ATV dealership. We use lots of those NGK plug boots with copper stranded wire on ATV's & motorcycles. I have noticed that over time (years of use) the resistors will start to brake down. Most notable on the ATVs that are used for mapping land. The electronics that they use to do this is very subseptable to RFI. Kinda like a high power GPS. It will give very weird readings if RFI is introduced. Usually when this happens if the plug cap is replaced & make sure the spark plug has a resistor like using a BR8EA as opposed to a B8EA will make it all better. When a motocycle comes in with a complaint of wining in the radio the first thing to check is the plugs & plug cap resistance. If it is way low will cause lots of RFI. I dont know how fragile the modules are on the HEI distributors, but I would think running the plug caps would help. This is my experience. Hope it helps
Old VW and old Volvo, used a straight resistor made of reddish/brown bakelite, for use with copper wires. It threads onto the copper core with what looks like the pointed end of a sheetmetal screw inside it. No clue about the electronic stuff, but I assume the resistors were only needed for radio interference. As I thought I read decades ago, even if the car had no radio, the car needed to be compliant to FCC?
This is exactly the type of first-hand experience I was looking for. Thanks for the reply! I did a little research on how much resistance I would need, and found that the recommended spark plug wires (Taylor Spiro-pro 8mm) for the distributor have 350 ohms/ft of resistance. It takes approximately 25 ft of wire to do a SBC, which equates to around 8,750 ohms total resistance. So, if I use the NGK 1000 ohm resistor boots, I would be looking at 8000 ohms total resistance, correct? This should be in the ballpark of what the Taylor Spiro-pro would have if I've got my mind wrapped around this appropriately. My head hurts!
I would think you are on the right track. Most of the time in the applications I deal with it calls for a 5000 ohm plug cap. That would be for a V-twin.
Bass I rreally don't know why RFI would create a problem with a distributor (electronic or points). I have and do run cloth covered plug wires on both my 39 and 32 using Pertronix converted stock distributors on both cars. The 39 has been running for the last 23 years without issue. The 32 is a new build, but runs just fine. I always was led to believe that RFI suppression was merely for radio intereference fixes Jim
NOS clear red wire from the sixties. NOS Packard 440 wire used in the 60s. Both systems use the Chrysler electronic converted Mallory dist. with Rajah clips at the plugs. Neither car has a radio. (weight) No problems or complications. I checked with GMC Bubba to see if he had any bad experiences with electronic modules and solid core wire. Apparently I was not just lucky. He told me that he saw no great risk. I believe that he uses the GM module on some of his custom systems.
Normally I wouldn't really worry much about this sort of thing, but all the people I've read about having problems with these distributors makes me a little timid. From the paperwork with the distributor: Spark Plug Wires[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]-The Vertex® Distributor is designed to be operated with suppression type spark plug wires to prevent false triggering and premature ignition failures. Taylor Spiro-Pro 8mm ignition wires are recommended. [/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman] [/FONT][/FONT]...and... 6.) DO NOT USE SOLID CORE IGNITION, COPPER CORE OR STAINLESS STEEL (SPARK PLUG) WIRES with any Electronic Ignition System. Here is a link to the instructions that come with the distributor: http://www.taylorvertex.com/Support/pdfs/3-Wire_Electronic_Distributor_Installation.pdf Maybe these warnings/recommendations come from their warranty department, and aren't really based on reality. I don't know. I've noticed that the general consensus among ignition companies is that you are supposed to use suppression wire with electronic distributors. However, that may be for legal reasons. I think there are laws about how much RFI your car can give off, so their recommendations may have nothing to do with the effect the RFI has on the electronic ignition.
Guy's I'm confused . I am not running a radio . Can one use solid core wire with an electronic inigation. Will it live with these wires?
Have you actually read about people with module problems or are you just reading about people that repeat the company line? I did my flathead conversion in 1997 as far as I know it is still going strong. Sold it. Everybody tried to scare me that it would soon fail. One thing that I notice about the internet is that there are a lot of "I read this" types and very few "I did this types." As I said I did mine before the internet and was not aware of the possible problem. I don't know how anyone could tell if a module failed that it was due to solid core wires or just dumb luck. Modules fail with carbon core wires too so what happened there? I can only speak from my experiences and I don't like to repeat rumors. The electronic people have to back up their products so I'm guessing that they err on the safe side. I can only speak of my actual experience. It will break someday but I won't be blaming it on my solid core wires. JMHO
Here's the issue. We do supply a module for those Mag look a likes. But the design of the distributor already puts the module in a hostile environment that is seeing a lot of RFI. With good grounds and high quality wires these distributors seem to work and last just fine. BUT Adding more RFI from leaky solid core wires only adds to the problem. Some guys get away with it, but there have definitely been failures contributed to the extra high amount of RFI generated by the combination. Vintage Reproduction Parts offers a cloth wire with a silicone suppression inner core that seems to work quite well for the best of both worlds. This is the only source I know of. http://www.vintagepartsusa.com/
Don, is the module something readily available from Pertronix, or is it specific to this distributor? I haven't removed the module, but I can't see any markings on it looking at it with the cap off. I think it might be good to have a spare to toss in the tool kit for long trips...and I want to be able to drive this car on a 3000 mile round trip to Bonneville soon. Thanks for the link to those wires, and thanks for taking the time to reply.
How's about you have Rhode Island Wire wind some cloth covering around the fancy-cored plug wire the distributor is supposed to run? It will remove all your worries, not void the warranty, and look exactly like you want it to. You could probably even pick the colors they weave it with. http://www.riwire.com/ .
Alchemy, that seems like a good idea! I'll check into it. I looked inside my Taylor/ Vertex distributor again, and through some detective work came to find out that it is built with a Mallory 609 ignition module. This is the same module Mallory uses in its magnetic breakerless distributor. Hotroddon...does Pertronix make an Ignitor module to replace this set-up? I know you guys either did or do make a module for the mag-look distributor, but is it something I can buy to replace the Mallory parts? Or am I stuck with the Mallory module? For the record, I haven't fired the engine with this distributor yet, and it may be fine. I just want to have a plan B in place if things go haywire with the distributor. I bought it second-hand about 4 years ago, and I'm just now getting to a point where I'll need to use it. Thanks for all the help, guys!
hopefully you will not need to wrap your melon with foil or old ARBYS sandwich wrappers when wet exposed wrap complicates all above .. length may matter in wire shielding good luck with this whole scheme
We were supplying Vertex with modules, but it looks like we haven't in some time now. They may have switched to Mallory, but I have also seen some of those that guys have converted themselves to Mallory for whatever reason. It is an electrical hostile environment and hard on any module BASS - PM sent
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