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welding 3/8 steel plate

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Joe Jackman, May 27, 2012.

  1. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,670

    Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Member

    And if the english wheel C frame, etc. that you're building is too big to trasport to your buddy's shop, tack it all together, then look for a mobile welder or heavy equipment repair tech that has the equipment on his rig and wants to make some side $$$ in your driveway welding for a few hours. These guys weld busted up grading buckets, blades, etc. all the time and are equipped to handle heavy plate in the field.

    Be way cheaper than a $2500 generator.
     
  2. If you need to ask, I wouldn't try it for real.
    Try some scrap and bust it. Tack it to test those, weld it to test those.
    If I had any more than a few welds any longer than a couple inches I wouldn't bother doing it with a 110.

    Flux core with switched polarity will get you a deeper into the 3/8 plate. Pre heat, flux core with gas coverage will help with the welds & help with your tacks.
    With your machine turned all the way up, you will most likely pop the duty cycle. That makes for lots of trouble when pre-heating is involved.

    Renting a welder is cheap relatively, buying a used buzz box and a suitable power supply would be the best, easiest and cheapest if you plan on doing a project like this more than once.
     
  3. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 7,175

    73RR
    Member

    3/8" requires some serious heat and the correct rod to get a good weld. Are you well trained/practiced in the ancient art of stick welding?

    You can rent portable equipment or hire a moble repair guy but at the end of the current job they will be gone and you have nothing but the current project to show for your money.
    $2500 buys alot of electrical work even in todays market. If you are renting your 'shop' space then the owner may not be too keen on you, or anyone, adding electrical service to his building due to the inherent risk of fire so the rental option may be your only option. But if you own the space then adding a sub panel is pretty basic and running 'pipe' to the work area is not generally difficult although an extension cord may be cheaper.
    You will have plenty of money left to buy a good stick machine. Not long ago I bought a Miller 240A ac/dc at an estate auction for a whopping $60...
    A quick look at craigslist for LA has a huge selection of welding equipment.
     
  4. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    i think you make a lot of good points. i am using rented space. i wish to do my own work and i am not afraid to learn stick. i just finished watching this video which i thought was pretty decent. what do you think of it?

    http://youtu.be/zWdgEaXWDxQ

    pretty sure with enough time and practice on scrap i can get good. i hope that splatter sprays i see advertised work. if they don't that would suck.

    since it's a hobby i see nothing wrong with using the generator set which i think will give me freedom to work where i want which is important to me.
     
  5. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    thanks, shawn. i like the portability of the generator i linked to. it's only 200 pounds and it is compact.
     
  6. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    thanks.
     
  7. killa fab
    Joined: Apr 21, 2011
    Posts: 101

    killa fab
    Member

    buy a 220 welder, either mig or stick. I personally like mig because im a novice welder. Now my buddies can weld good with an arc welder. We have welded 3/8 and 1/2" with 220 stick welders. Just have to bevel the edges. i have a miller 180 or 185 cant remember off my head, mig welder. Works great on stuff up to 1/4", 3/8" steel is pushing it with my 180 mig but ive done it with good success. So as some have mentioned, tack it up and take it to a friends house or somewhere that has a big welder. Easy enough.
     
  8. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin


    You would be better off buying a gas or diesel powered welder/generator, then you won't have to get another welder and you still have the generator capacity. There are several on that Northern Tool site.

    http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200499331_200499331
     
  9. DamnYankeesKustoms
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 297

    DamnYankeesKustoms
    Member

    If you want to see some excellent video's..check out weldingtipsandtricks.com or on youtube, He show's how to use TIG, MIG and stick (smaw) and welding everything from MS- aluminum, SS, chrome molly etc... lots of excellent video's.

    Another option is to take a some classes at your local tech school, I'm not saying you can't learn on your own, but it really helps to have some instruction... Lots of little things add up and effect your weld quality, speed, angle's, temps, and using the right technique, a vertical up weld is very different than running a bead in flat position, and welding on a table is very different than welding in a cramped up space above your head or around a corner....and materials, well that's a whole other paragragh... I also recomend buying a machine that is beyond what you think you will need and FYI most any DC stick welder can also run TIG... if that is something your interested in...
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
  10. bohica2xo
    Joined: Mar 6, 2012
    Posts: 153

    bohica2xo
    Member
    from Las Vegas

    I do a fair bit of welding, and welding .375 steel for load bearing applications is not the place to start learning the trade.

    One of my welding machines draws 150 amps @ 240v, and it would be my "go to" for really heavy work. You could MIG weld that plate with .045 wire if you had a machine big enough to give you 30 arc volts with .045 wire. Say, 300 amps? Yeah, not exactly portable.

    Since you are in "rented space" with only 110v 20a service I will assume you are in a storage space or subdivided industial with no access to the main breaker panel. So 110v 20a is what you have. Ok. Everybody starts someplace.

    Several good suggestions have been made already, regarding hiring a mobile welder, using a gas powered welding machine etc. You already know you will be using a stick arc (SMAW) process, so you should be learning to do that well before you step off the deep end with .375 plate.

    Harbor (bomber) Freight or Northern Tool both sell a small 110v 20a inverter for SMAW / TIG. Literally the size of a loaf of bread. I own one. That's right, with 375 amp welders in my shop I own one of those little guys too. It is handy as hell with a 100 foot cord to fix a fence at home. Tack some stuff on a worksite to carry it back to the big machine. TIG weld thin stuff.

    That little machine will run 80a with a 35% duty cycle. You might be surprised what you can weld with 1/16" electrodes @ 65 amps. You should start with a bunch of 3/16 & 1/4 scrap & that little machine. Learn to run a good bead with the 150 buck stick machine, and anything else you buy or rent will be easy.

    You can buy E7014 rod in 1/16" from HF. Other rod may not be on the shelf at the local welding supply in 1/16", but McMaster-Carr sells it in most grades.

    Buy a little inverter & learn to weld. With a good auto-dark helmet you will be in it about 200 bucks.

    B.
     
  11. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    i would like to see how far I can get on my own first before taking a class at a community collage. seems like welding is all about lots of practice and rewatching video when shit goes wrong. probably when actually welding i can pick up stuff on a whole other level from the videos. i get what you are saying about vertical up stick. it looks like a real bitch. flat looks much easier. thanks for the advice on buying a welder. i'll bee sure to check out weldingtipsandtricks.com

    if i decide to get one of those small, portable mig welders to start, what is the maximum sized steel plate i can correctly weld (one pass, no preheating) with 110V and 20 amps?
     
  12. Morrisman
    Joined: Dec 9, 2003
    Posts: 1,602

    Morrisman
    Member
    from England

    If it were me I'd try multiple passes with a smaller rod, just so you could really get a burn into the parent metal. Follow each pass quickly so you build up some heat in the job.

    My own arc 160amp -220v welder seems down on power since we moved house. No idea why, and just doesn't play well with 3.2 mm rods, so I have now downsized to using 2.5mm rods and get some great welds.

    Not sure if it is the welder playing up or the mains supply. It is designed to run off a 13 amp supply, as it came from England and that is maximum household power outlet allowed there.
     
  13. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    okay.

    you got it right.

    think this is good advice.


    i do the best i can to never buy anything that's made in china. i realize that many american products contain chinese made parts and some stuff you can't help buying chinese. do you have any suggestions for an inverter not made in china?

    sounds like great advice to me. i'm sold! :D
     
  14. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Most of the 110 volt machines list their capacity at 3/16" thickness. Some up to 1/4". Duty cycles at the highest settings will be about 20% so you won't be able to weld for more than 15 minutes out of an hour.
     
  15. DamnYankeesKustoms
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 297

    DamnYankeesKustoms
    Member

    I have a (don't shoot me) Everlast power arc 140 st..(stick /tig) , runs on bolth 110 and 220, runs 1/8th 7018,( I use 3/32 7018 ) and comes with a 17 series tig torch... under $250... welds beutifully and has digital amp readout... all you need is a flow meter, a bottle of PURE argon, and of course a hood. Good little machine and it's about the size of a large lunch box...5 year warranty... I bought this for portabilty... I mainly use a big ass Lincoln SquareWave tig 300 amp machine, but the little welder is nice to have... also has a pretty good D/C 40 % I think @ max amps...
     
  16. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    thanks!
     
  17. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,453

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    Shame that you're on the opposite coast, I'd lend you my portable Lincoln gen set/welder. The little monster cranks out 180amps at 220V. It'll weld a bridge! Try to find one on CL. They come up for sale fairly often, around here (NYS) anyway. Good luck!
     
  18. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    am i correct that the everlast machine you referenced does not appear to have any competition even at close to 3 times the price? they also seem to be the market leader with this lunch box type of welder.
     
  19. bohica2xo
    Joined: Mar 6, 2012
    Posts: 153

    bohica2xo
    Member
    from Las Vegas

    The desire for a non-import inverter welder will cost you about 3x - as you just noticed with the Everlast.

    Within the 110v only constraint, the Everlast has the same capacity as the HF unit for current. If you spend the extra 100 bucks on it you will have more capacity if/when you get 220v power. A good unit for an import.

    The sad thing is, if you buy a "blue" inverter the same size, the internals are all made overseas too.

    B.
     
  20. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,480

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I checked their website and it looks too good to be true. I tried their history link and it doesn't contain any dates. What good is a 5 year warranty from a company that doesn't appear to have been in business yesterday and may not be tomorrow. If they were just honest about where they're made I'd consider one.
     
  21. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    how it appears to me. think in this area (making small inverters)the chinese are actually the technology leaders. sad but it is what it is.
     
  22. Technology leaders or stealers.
     
  23. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    probably they get help from the chinese government who doesn't play fair and who often subsidize products to put american companies out of business. for this price i don't think anyone should count on the warranty. if i buy it i won't. unfortunately they, like many other companies selling chinese stuff, hide behind an american flag. i don't see any american company actually making this style or product that uses a small inverter. this seems to be a product that isn't a copy or a knock off but is actually innovative.
     
  24. My Lincoln 220 volt mig would do 1/4" if it was beveled.
    3/8" with 110 volts ? Not very well.

    What are you trying to weld ?
     

  25. You don't need anything near 3/8" for an English Wheel.
    Size is more important than wall thickness.
    Larger tubes, with thinner walls, will be stiffer, and easier to weld.
     
  26. smiffy6four
    Joined: Apr 12, 2010
    Posts: 333

    smiffy6four
    Member

    Line everything up, tack it with your MIG, then get it next to a bigger welder.

    If you were closer, I'd gladly assist. I have 220v Lincoln MIG and 220v stick welder.
     
  27.  
  28. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal


    the advice i was given to use arc and learn to weld smaller pieces of plate till i get good is the way i'm going to go.
     
  29. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    you might have a very valid point. thanks for bringing it up! i wonder if anyone has done finite element analysis for an english wheel. :)
     
  30. Joe Jackman
    Joined: May 6, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Joe Jackman
    Member
    from SoCal

    for sure lots of corner joints. seems like multiple pass would be okay for corner joints?
     

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