Got an important cross steer question

Hey guys. I'm working on a 33 plymouth coupe for someone that needs the steering re- done. It has a 2x4 home made frame and an early-mid thirties ford axle with the superbell/pet and jakes 37-41 spindles, disk brakes,and hairpins. Some numbnuts tried to mount a steering rack to the axle and I'm changing it back to the way it belongs with proper tie rods and a vega box.I know that you have to keep the steering arms at the same angle, etc. when you are setting up the tie rod and drag link . I know you have to keep them parallel to the ground with each other. My question is. does the tie rod/drag link need to maintain the 2 inches of spacing that they have starting at the steering arm? Or can I move the pitman arm further back? If not, I'm gonna have clearance issues with the radiator. It would have been easier to go with side steer, but his headers wouldn't allow that.

 

The drag link can run at an angle viewed from the top. Obviously straighter across is better.

Are you running a panhard bar? If so, the drag link should match the length and angle of the panhard as closely as possible in all directions.

 

No 'if's' on the panhard rod, you MUST have one with cross-steer.

Cosmo

 

For a light car, no need for a pan hard bar, I run a Vega box in my 'A' and there is no way I can "push" the axle sideways.The axle is mounted under tension (spring stretched slightly to reach perch pins) No pan hard bar on Fords up to 42.

 

I'm having a bit of a problem visualizing this. Is the axle pushed out in front of the radiator a bunch, or is it under the radiator like most traditional Fords?
how about a picture?

 

I'm having a bit of a problem making it work lol. It's a spring over axle and it sits out in front of the frame like on a t bucket.

 

lucky you Yes, I can see how it won't be fun to get from box to the r.h. spindle. Pics would help. Someone here will figure a way.

 

I have a model a and the steering drag link is 4 inchs from the other drag link and it steers great. In the speedway catalog they say no more then 5 inchs apart.

 

This is what I did with mine


I know there are some real gurus on here that might say my setup is crap. I am by no means a suspension expert.

 

OK that's what I thought you might say. That really doesn't lend itself to cross steer

 

I agree, but if I change to that setup I will have to change the headers and the steering column. I will post pics here in a day or so. You guys will get a kick out of this thing.

And I was considering making an L shaped Drag link out of solid bar to make it reach around the radiator, but I was afraid it might flex too much. Ground clearance is also an issue.

 

I agree with Cosmo, but there as many different opinions on this one as hairs on a dog's ass....

Please don't put any bends or welds in the drag link or tie rod. Regardless of what you may have seen above.

 

CALI4NIACRUISER.................WTF


.................. tell me that foto is a bad joke

 

I won't put any bends or welds in either of them. Do you think the picture above would work if the pitman arm were mounted at that back 90 and have a symmetrically mounted idler arm on the other side, like a parallelogram?

 

Educate us please. I wasn't sure about the bends either. I inserted solid stock in the material I used to make the bends. I also rosette welded all the components. What is the fatal flaw of a bent rod? Flex?




Your converse are not shop shoes. Buy boots.

 

My thought was if I put an identical L bend on the steering arm the two would always remain parallel. From the looks of things I suck, fill me in guys.


Your converse are not shop shoes. Buy boots.

 

I'm running crosssteer and no panhard bar, 1935 Plymouth, not light, and drives like a dream

 

Take a look at many orig non Ford cars of the 20s early 30s, their side steer links are bent in two directions. Ford carried over the straight link from the teens and earlier designs.

 

Ditto the panhard bar ! I saw a 39 Ford pickup, with a r & p steering gear bolted to the axel... Never thought two people would be that ignorant,..........

Happy Roddin'...4TTRUK

 

There are thousands of Dirt Track cars that race every week with a rack mounted to a solid axle!

 

My pavement supermodified too! But it's really NOT a great idea for the street...

Cali, yes flex is the problem. It won't necessarily bend at the corners, it will likely bow in the middle of the center section, allowing a change in toe-in. That's the definition of bump steer... It's not that the part is going to fail, so much as the fact that the front wheels may be doing something that you are not in control of.

 

Check out the rack and pinion setup from Unisteer. It is a small steering box with the cross steer shaft going to the drag link. It looks like it would work for you.

 

Thank you for the info! The whole reason I went with the vega was to avoid bump steer. Back to the drawing board. OP, sorry for somewhat hijacking your thread. Hopefully you got some info too!




Your converse are not shop shoes. Buy boots.

 

I ripped this photo off from Speedy Bill...but I just spent $750 with him, so hopefully he will forgive me.



The idea is not to give the drag link or tie rod any sort of "hinge points" or places to flex or bend. If either piece can bend or move, you can hold the steering wheel as tight as you like, and the front tires will do whatever they feel like doing. If you have a clearance problem, somethings gotta move. One solution is re-locating the tie rod to the front of the axle. Depending on the spindle, you may be able to find steering arms to do this, or they may have to be built.

 

Good thread. If you have a "correct" set up with a vega, straight tie rod, try pushing up and down on it. It flexs quite easily. Done this on my car, and others, same thing. Not a lot, but it bends easily. That always bothered me for the reasons stated above. I wonder if you made the link out of 4130 if would be rigid enough to not flex. Then, could you put a drop in it by bending to solve the issue here?

 

Cross steer on a 51 Chev truck frame with Vega box.

 

have any more pics of this 51' steering setup?

 

Well, see....the guy that built this is a short track racer so that's probably where he got the idea. But, he welded flat stock to the bottom of the axle and attached some cheap korean looking fwd manual rack with EXHAUST CLAMPS! and he had some half ass tied rods welded to it and put them on the wrong side of the taper in the steering arms.. Long story short there was about half a turn of freeplay in the wheel. I know you can use them but there is a right way to do it and this dude failed miserably. The current owner was letting his wife take their kids out in it

 

You probably don't want to take this thread down THAT road....the amount of stupid shit I see out there makes my head hurt.

Let's focus on the problem at hand. We've established that you can move the drag link back a LITTLE. The further out of parallel it gets, the less responsive and equal your steering will be.

 

And while I said that the R&P "CAN" be mounted to the axle, and not only for straight axle race cars do it, but many drag cars have as well, Exwest is right in it not being a good idea for the street mainly because you have to have a sliding or flexible steering shaft to make up for the movement of the axle. And these are fairly high in maintenance and can easily bind on the street after some miles get built up.