So if you believe Eastwood's site and an independent article they have, it's easier and cheaper to use their product (Rust Encapsulator) over POR-15. Looks like less BS to apply it anyhow, no need to do as much prep work. Anyone have opinions or links to old threads, who prefers which and why? I like that the Eastwood stuff comes in a spraybomb, even though it's as much for that as the POR-15 starter kit was. One thing that would be good to know is if you want to use filler over either one, or need to remove it, and if it has to come off how hard it is to sand it away - I have a car here that could use a dip in a big tank of one or the other, so I'm curious to see what people think - I may end up sampling both and using some on my rusty POS truck, that will definately give the stuff a test after a NY winter without being washed once.
I used the eastwood stuff on my winter daily '94 Caprice cop car, because I too wanted to see how it worked. I'm from wisconsin and our winters are long and salty, not as long and salty as some, but long enough and salty enough. mosty of the bottom of the car and suspension was surface rusty. I spent some time wire brushing it, but I didn't go all out on it, just getting most of the flakey stuff off. To degrease it, again in the name of lazyness, I just loaded the paint gun with thinner and hosed it down. I put on 2 full coats, and use about 1 3/4 quarts of the stuff. Well, after the winter, with very few underbody washings, it still looks pretty good. places like the wheel wells chipped, flaked and started to rust again, but I think that could have been avoided if I top coated it with some rubberized undercoating so it had some protection from the constant bombardment of salted and sanded roads. The frame and floorpans still look nice. So, in summery, I think it worked ok. It went on easy, and cleaned up easy. I think if I do it again, I would spray some rubbertized undercoating on top of it. It did seem to stop the rust, anyplac that is re-rusting is because of a chip, not rust coming through the Rust Encapsulator. In my opinion, for how cheap it is, and the little prep involved, its worth the money.
Interesting that the Eastwood chips, if you believe the POR-15 claims your car can get hit by a train and the POR-15 won't come off - I'll try both out by the end of summer and see what I like, I suppose -
I used the Rust Encapsulator on my 49 Chrysler, and have a thin coat of Rage over top the whole thing. No problems. Anything is going to chip. It all works on the same principle. Molecular conversion of Iron oxide to Iron Phosphate by means of phosphoric acid oxidation. Iron phosphate is hard but as so brittle and will chip. POR 15 and RE just add some additional qualities to give it more of a finish, kind of like mixing it with primer.
"Auto Restorer" did a long term test between the two & found RE to be much more UV resistant than Por 15. This publication kinda-like "Comsumer Reports" in that they don't accept advertising, I trust thier word.
I've used so much rust encapsulator that I should have bought Eastwood stock. I've been happy with it, but then everything I have sprayed with it stays in my garage. I think it works best with a fairly thick coat of the stuff. If you sand it, it loads up the paper pretty readily. BTW, its very easy to scratch it I think - no more difficult than regular paint.
POR-15 is different than the "rust-conversion" type of products, as there is no "conversion" involved, it does not work by converting iron oxide into brittle iron phosphate, its bond to the surface is mainly mechanical, simply penetrating and sealing the surface against further oxygen and water penetration to arrest the rusting process, it then remains flexible indefinitely. I have been using it for years with very good results, it works great on rusty surfaces, but not for crap over any other paint or on smooth unrusted metal. I have sample pieces of rusted sheetmetal that I have treated with POR and then folded in half and then flattened back out with a hammer and dolly without any chipping or cracking, just a few surface scuff marks. I encourage anyone to obtain a little and experiment with it...but the key factor is that the surface must be well rusted for it to attain its maximum performance.
Thanks, I was working under the wrong assumption. Do you happen to know what it incorporates to bond to the rust?
My understanding is that the basic formulation is similar to "super-glue", it does not air-dry or off-gas as conventional paints but chemically "cures" by the absorbtion of any moisture present in the metal surface and in the humidity of the air.
FWIW, make sure to follow all the steps for the por15. I have found it will peel off if applied to thick (2 thin coats work best) or if the area is not very rusty. Sticks better to rust. I used chassis coat black over some por15 and it seems to be pretty strong. I got a can of rust encapsulator, gonna give it a try on the inside of my doors. There is another product called zero rust, lots of great feedback about that product. I don't know if it is sales hype but supposedly that is the only product endorsed by the armed forces. Do a search and you will seen this topic has been previously discussed. Hope that helps.
Regarding spudshaft's observation that rust-encapsulator is "very easy to scratch....no more difficult than regular paint", I've encountered this problem with a lot of competing rust-stop products, and this is where POR-15 really shines, because it dries to a HARD! almost porcelain-like finish that is difficult to scratch, and that will sand without 'balling-up' and clogging up the sand-paper,(tough to sand though, like sanding on glass or porcelain) while many of the 'soft' drying rust-stop paints seem to stay 'gummy' and to never actually get completely dry. Just wanted to add that POR-15 sets up like plastic, and can even be used in a mold to create small parts such as knobs.
My experience is with POR-15. I've been using it for years with no problems. Won't repeat what others have said, but I did have good results with it over nice shinny blasted metal as well as rusty. Just had to prep per instructions and never had ANY peeling problems. Will be using it on the 48 My .02
I just used Rust Bullet on the cab of my truck. It went on pretty nice and seems to be some very sturdy stuff. It requires two coats, an initial one and then the second to seal the first. Directions say you can top coat with just about any paint you want. I'm gonna use acrylic enamel. Supposedly these guys did independant studies comparing their product with many competitors. http://www.rustbullet.com/ I liked the way it applied but, only time will tell if it holds up and their claims are true. -David
The last I heard Rust Bullet was being sued for ripping off another companies patent. POR-15 started life as an industrial and marine floor coating. You can buy the same stuff for half the price at several industrial suppliers. It doesnt truly chemically bond to anything, it simply smothers it. Think plastic tool dip. This makes it very easy to peel off when the coating is damaged by brake fluid, and road nicks that permit moisture (especially from salted roads) underneath. I prefer Zero Rust for an easy to apply product where extreme hardness is not needed. www.zerorust.com Any rust encapsulator will break down when subjected to the elements, 2-3 years is typical in the rot belt. Auto Restorer must get kick backs from Eastwoods, they are always pimping their products. Makes this old Yankee suspicious.
being that the Eastwood product does convert the rust. I wonder how it would perform with POR15 on top of the Eastwood Rust Encapsulator? I was thinking this would eliminated the prep steps with POR-15 no marine clean or metal prep.
What about this "Chassis Saver " paint by Magnet paints? Anyone use this? http://www.magnetpaints.com/underbody.asp
well, at least someone knows how to use search... POR-15 will work over clean rusty metal with no prep at all.. I don't see it going over the other stuff. Would cost a fortune to do more than just small stuff, too.
Looks viable. Never used it but I like the idea of the filler impregnation degree. POR-15 will fill to a certain degree, but if these "testimonials " hold true, this may build deeper. I'm intriqued as I have a Ponti that rather could use such a thing. I've used a multi-tude of products over encapsulator with no problems. Perhaps with POR-15's adhesion principle, I can't see a problem perse, BUT I can't really see an advantage really either. The encapsulator seals as it converts.
Well I spilled some on outside painted concrete garage ramp in 1995 the POR 15 spill is still there all the surrounding paint is gone. i've used it on 2 cars so far with no problems and no rust. The biggest PIA is if you get it on your skin. They have many other products now then they had then.
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