I'm about 3/4 of the way done on the teardown of my 1951 Pontiac Cheiftain and it's getting time to make some decissions. Before I was wanting to slap a Pontiac 400 for a motor in it, MII front end, and triangulate/ bag the rear.... Now I'm thinking otherwise. I think I want to keep the car much more traditional. I saw a copper-ish colored ford pickup in a recent Rodder's Journal. I loved the color and thought it would go great on the roof while going gloss black on the body. While thinking of this it reminded me to check out the Hot Rod article on Billy Gibbon's 1950 "Kopperhed" Ford shoebox. After looking through the article, I really admired the subtleness of the changes and how it is a custom, but it almost seems as if it could have come from the factory in that form. That is kind of the idea I want to go with as well. Anyway, I have decided to scrap the whole airbag idea. I really want to keep the car in the true spirit of the HAMB. Not that I'm building it for anyone else. So, with all that being said..... What do you guy's think would be a good drivetrain combination for the build? I would like something that has driveability and is period correct. That's not asking for too much Ed
350 Chevys are good engines and cheap, but actually a big inch Pontiac or Buick/ Olds[bargains usually] with a tall rear gear[2:50 2:73] or so will net you a mileage that even a smallblock Chevy can't....Plus the added torque will net about the same performance of the smaller engine. An added bonus is they will look good in that long engine bay instead of an engine looking small in there... Cadillac engines are not as viable choices as they are gas hogs and usually are apart for repair more than running.....
You'll love a nailhead in there. 400 pontiac is a great choice, but an earlier 389 might be more appropriate with you change in direction. Caddy engine
A guy also has to realize that in reality when out on the road and drivin your old cars a lot we need dependability and parts when we break down..... the ol straight eight was a good engine at thetime, but if you were out on a run and you need a repair you may have to hauled home to wait for parts..... Also it will be a lot more cost when you get them.... I love old engines ,don't get me wrong,but when they were built= 10 thousandths piston to wall clearances and a rope rear main seal was how they were built as a new car they even had a blowby tube for the very reason= they had a lot of blowby when even at low mileages.....
I agree with whoareyou. Keep it all Pontiac. The 347 tri power, or even the early 389 tri power (59'-61' or so) would be great.
When you say "period correct", what is your period? As in, what year would your car have been built in, if it weren't a new build? For my current (almost completed) '52 Ford build, I gave myself a 1962 cutoff. As in, I want the car to look like it could have existed/been built in 1962 and not look out of place. If you want your Chieftain to look like it could have been built in 1954, then you'd most likely have a hopped up inline flathead Pontiac engine under the hood. If your period is 1964, then a tri-carbed 389 would be pretty hot. First pick a year that all of the parts used on your car would have been available and all of the modifications done to it would have been popular. Then it'll be easier to decide what the hot motor for that car would have been at that time.
Well there's all this talk of parts availability.... If you have enough to fix a carb or a water pump with you on a road trip along w tune up parts you're probably fine. If you lose a rod on an SBC that's not going to be a roadside repair in all likelihood. If I want modern reliability I own modern cars, they collect dust for a reason.
Use the 400. Part of this tradition thing is using whatcha got! The 400 is just a bored out 389. Hard to tell the between the 64 389 and a 67 400
So far- knock on wood - I've never had a break down that couldn't be fixed on the side of the road. Old buicks, pontiacs, caddys, olds, chevys Harleys . Most of the time its stupid stuff, stuck float, belt, altenator, sheared a lug nut, flat tire, arced up points. PM will stop a lot of that. Everyone has a cell phone nowadays, could hire a towtruck to follow you. As far as dependability goes, these engines went cross country every single day. Mo reason they can't still do that.
What period exactly? Maybe a 389 or a 326 or??? They all use the same block. If you are shooting at the later '50s or earlier '60s a 389 would be a perfect choice of drivetrain. maybe a slim jim behind it or a slant pan hydro. You are absolutely correct on you custom ideas, when it comes to custom less is more.
Thanks for the insight guys. I would have loved to have used the straight 8 and hydro but it just isn't economical or practical at this point. I think I will stick with it being poncho powered. Blocks and heads are still easy to come by and fairly cheap to come by. Ed
Years ago I rewired a 50 Pontiac for a buddy, it had a 347 swapped in and it looked like it belonged there. This was in about 1959 or 60 so that must make that swap traditional, right ? I love seeing Pontiac motors in Pontiacs, Olds engines in Oldsmobiles, etc. Just seems so right. Don
if I were ever to build an old Pontiac I would have a 400 or 428 and turbo 400. then I would put the pedal to the floor and smoke the tires until one pops. did that in my 69 Gran Prix. tried it again later and broke the timing chain. that was the end of that.
Pontiac I had I installed a SBC because they are cheap and plenty. Now since we are using your checkbook we can order a flashy 389 tripower. Is there no engine in the car currently or is it pooched?
It has the original straight 8 268 with a hydramatic in it. The motor is frozen and too costly to rebuild for what it is imo. Ed
I'm thinking a 347 or early 389 tri-power might be the way to go. Does anyone know if there is a way to still use my '51 hydramatic with a 347 or 389? I know that pontiac had a few versions of the hydramatic. Ed
Stick with a Pontiac, you will love it. Light, fairly cheap to build, lots of power, good parts accessability, plus you already have it. Here is mine for the '34. I tell all the traditional purist guys it is a '65 389, but it actually displaces 462 inches and will put the car into the high 11s with slicks. Good luck, -Abone. P.S. No small block Chevvie please....
If you have a 400, great; if not, maybe a 70 or so 400 or 455. Slap on a set of 1960 389 heads, and a 56 dual quad, and tell people you have a 317 out of a 1956. Very few Pontiac people will know the difference, and probably no non-Pontiac people will. Jon.
Have to disagree about the Caddie engines,I had an old tired 500 in two different pickups and the mileage was good if you could stay out of the secondaries. One water pump and one set of plugs good for over 10,000 miles of abuse.
Keep it Pontiac. You can make 400s haul ass for cheap. My 400 was built in 1991 for $999 and I put new springs on the old valves. I am doing 12.5s, and now with a poor nitrous set up it is 11.7s in a 3800 lb car. This is with nothing special and like others said. All Pontiacs look pretty much the same. Just throw a Tri-power on it and it will look and go great!!! I'd never go to a Chevy. Nothing like the torque of a Pontiac that you don't have to rev to the moon to make power. My rwhp and torque on the dyno put out over 472 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels from about 3500 and peaked at about 5,200 and still did not drop under 450 even at 6,200. Remember this was just a stock rebuilt 400 with a mild cam. Xhevy small blocks have no torque compared to Pontiacs and torque is what you feel!!
If you want even more power, the stroker kits for Pontiacs are around $1,500-1,800 for all good quality parts. Forged pistons, H beam rods and new crank and bearings.That will get you 468 CID of Pontiac power very cheap.
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