Need help and info to identify a 1961 Starliner 390 4 speed car

I have the first shot at looking at a barn find this weekend, car in question is a 1961 Starliner. It is suppose to be a 390 with tri power and 4 speed. car is Red on Red and has been stored for over 20 years in a garage. The elderly gentleman passed and his grandson has inherited the car and does not want it. Is there a way to identify that the car would be a true 390 with tripower and 4 speed. I really do not know what to look for to make sure it is what they are saying it is. I have messed with mostly Mopars for 35 years and know exactly what to look for in Mopar to authentic what the car was originally. I have not seen the car or have pictures until saturday. There is some extra parts also, I am being told some aluminum heads, another motor either a 427 or a 429 but i do not kow anything about the differences in the motors either. What kind of rear axle would this car have also? If anyone could tell me what to look for to help with my purchase, it would be greatly appreciated. Also i do know the motor and tranny are out of the car at this time and is suppose to have a decent body and interior my need to be redone. This being said what should i expect to pay for a car like this?

 

Expect to pay out the nose unless the fella is not real car savvy. All 427s have cross bolted mains, so look down at the pan rail to see if the mains are cross bolted.

Unless you are doint a restoration it really doesn't matter if it came as a tri power 4 speed car or not, just look to see if it is a tri power motor and has a 4 speed bolted to it. It is not a matter of what a car came with in our world it is all about what its got.

 

A '61 tripower 4 speed could be a 406 too. Cross bolt mains, balance weighted flywheel, neither are present if it's a 390.
The tripower alone is worth big bucks, like thousands (If it's a factory Ford setup).
9" rear, 28 spline axles.
390,406, 427, 428 are FE engines, the intake manifold goes out under the valve covers a ways where the 429 doesn't.
Find a Ford guy to go with you and check it out. A 427 or 406 could easily double the value over a 390.

 

406 is zerobalance flywheel .Only 428 and 410
thats external balaced

 

That car and engine sound to good to be true. Bring a car trailer and cash.
Hopefully the grandson likes some money more than a project and his friend and his research haven't convinced his he has a pot of gold. Please post a picture and the outcome. Good luck.

 

If you're in a city with a big book store with well supplied magazine section including the tech books, you might find a reference bool on Fe's.
Agree whole heartedly on taking a Ford guy with you ONLY if he's not BS and you can trust him to not try to buy out from under you and to keep his mouth shut about the car.

 

Try running the vin here http://www.decodethis.com/Default.aspx it will tell you all you need to know and for more info check here http://www.wrljet.com/fordv8/fe.html

 

I never heard of a '61 4-speed, as '62 was the first year the B/W 4-speed was available for BB Fords. Not a bad thing, but the car may not be a total original.

 

Hmm... Take a look at the front suspension. Does it look like an -61 or the -63/-64 ?
It´s a long shot but there was a black on red -61 over here equipped as you described it plus it had the newer suspension, the owner claimed it was factory.

 

I am told $17 k is the asking price, car is suppose to be rust free also, is this price out of line?

 

Not for a Starliner.....It's THE hottest Ford car to all of my Ford buds. You can google 406 427 428 ect and find the engine codes. I think a 406 is a B or G code.390 P or Z. 352 x ect.

 

Go over to fordfe.com for info on the Starliner. Some of those guys worked in Ford Engineering and the assembly plants when those cars were new.

The 4 speed was available late in 61, but it was a dealer installed option. Same thing with the 3 carb (six V ) manifold and carb setup. It was shipped in the trunk. Apparently the assembly plants weren't able to handle these options until the 62 model year changeover.

 

+1 on taking a Ford guy with you. Starliners with hipo engines had front brake lines that ran in a different location that Starliners with lowpo engines. The 390 solid lifter four barrel engine made a bunch of HP, like 370 to 375 if I remember correctly. Good luck on one of Ford's best.

 

Is there a certain Vin number sequence for certain engine size? Mopars had a lettter in the 5 spot to designate engine size.

 

Here is a picture of my 69 Cuda, car was built like this in 1976 and hasn't changed I recently sold my 64 Plymouth Savoy Hemi car and this Starliners got me interested in something different, just do not know enough info about them, so thanks for all the info that is coming.

 

Can't remember the Galaxie sequence but it will be like 5G07P645344 The last letter before the number sequence starts is the engine code. P=390.

 

I'd agree - as far as I know Ford didn't sell any 4 speed cars until 1962.

 

The 61 390 tripower was rated at 401 hp. The 4 speed first appeared at the 1961 Pike's Peak Hill Climb. There were 4 Ford's with the dealer installed 4 speed. This was in July of 61. Don't know when they were available to the general public, but I think it would be likely that some 61's got it.

 

tommyd's answer on vin code sequence is correct. The most desireable 61 Starliner's would have a Z or P engine code. It would be worth removing the starter to view the engineering number on the block as after fifty years many of the original engines are missing or replaced. I had a friend who just bought a 63 and 1/2 fastback, from the original owner, that was supposed to be a 390, only to find a 352 in it when it was drug out of the dirt it has sunken into.

 

A starliner is a pretty desirable car to almost any of us. Pretty hard to come by one that is solid. I would think that 17K is not totally out of line as long as it is a starliner when you get there.

The troouble with starliners is that they are starting to be like Deuce roadsters, you get there and what you are looking at is a 4 door sedan. If you go it alone be damned sure to look at some pics of starliners before you go.

Here is a link to a bunch of pics. There are a couple of '60s here as well so do a mouse over to get the info on the pic.

http://www.google.com/search?q=1961...Q&biw=1024&bih=547&sei=88WWT8bYA8OG2gXpt7DpDQ

 

Any 61galaxie or starliner with a 390 is a z code,unless police interceptor I believe,but the tripower only was available with the 375 hp solid lifter 390,wich also had better heads,and cast shorty headers.in 62 the diferentiated the vin better to tell what motor was in it.the only way to tell if it were a true hp car,is by the brakes,and it had to be a standard trans car,and I don't think u could get power brakes or steering,but not 100% sure.the four speed could be dealer installed in a standard trans car only in late 61,and the 406 wasn't out till 62.

 

My friend's dad in the early 1980s bought a nice 1961 Starliner and installed a "correct" three-two setup on the 390 motor to make it look like a 406 and bolted a 4-speed trans to it. It's not the same car (his was baby blue and he still owns it) but I'm just saying that it was pretty easy to do that back when the stuff was still available at swap meets.

Starliners are popular now, so it's worth something just for the car, and if the parts are genuine correct-year 406 parts then they are worth a fortune, too. You'll just have to look at the car and use your own judgment.

 

Bottom line - chances are slim and none it is a factory 390" tri-power 4-speed car. As has been mentioned, a few Starliners were updated with later parts as they came out. I remember one local guy who hauled home a 406" crate motor in the trunk of his Starliner. All the neighborhood guys helped him lift it out. He installed it using the factory Borg-Warner 3-speed overdrive. Later, when he could afford it, he installed a 4-speed.

jack vines

 

Starliner = beautifully designed roofline, to me the most graceful of the 60's Fords. Ford's equaivalent of the bubble top Chevrolet's and Pontiac's. Actually, it should not matter too much what is under the hood. Either it is good from the factory, or you can fix that problem.

 

Hi. I'm with PackardV8, and there's a lot of bad info on this thread.
There is no way to tell a factory 375hp or 401hp car without a dealer invoice, window sticker or similar documents. A very late car might have a VIN designation but most did not, plus all the special hardware that came on a genuine hipo car can be easily faked (it's all bolt on stuff).

Other fun facts:
The 4 speed was offered over the counter in 1961 (ref. Sept 1961 'Hot Rod'). The article implies the 4 speed being available from the factory at the tail end of the '61 model year but it is not possible to know how many were built.

Ford's 6 barrel intake is not called tripower (that's Pontiac marketing lingo). The intake by itself is not particularly rare. They were sold over the counter for several years.

The VIN is on the frame, not on the door.

Have fun.

 

I still say Ford should have used that motor for the '67-'68 pony car.. But they didn't..

 

No matter what you find, come back and post your findings, with pix if you can. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

thanks again for the help, I will also take some pics this saturday and post them.

cya

 

Yep! Ditto on the pics...

 

what i found was an older mild race car, front clip is off of the car, engine 390 4 barrel on the stand and looks fresh and 4 speed tranny in the trunk, floor cut out for shifter kinda crude. Car was an original Z code 390, 3 speed overdrive, red ext with black and white interior and 3.56 gear ratio according to the trim tag. Gentleman had also purchased firberglass fenders, core support, hood. Here are couple of pics I took. so whats it worth?