I'm about to box my first frame. But I don't really know how to do it to get the best result. I have done a little sketch on the possibilities that I coult imagine it beeing done in. What way is the best? I'm planing to do as in number 1 in the front end of the car. becouse this looks much better. But from the firewall and back I want a full box to get the frame as strong as possible, and less plases to collect dirt. so, of 1a and 1b wich is best? and of 2,3 and 4 wich is best or do you have a better way to do it? I can point put that I'm quite new at welding as well. also if it needs clarification grey is the stock frame, blue is the boxing plate and red the weld.
All good but I think number 3 gives the best weld penetration on both the frame and boxing plate steel.
yep 3 is the go, equal peno and will sand up nice and smooth without taking all the strength out of the weld
The traditional way is #3. We would always grind the weld to round the corner to match the other 3 corners. When boxed this way you are just smoothing the top of the bead for looks and not grinding most of it away. The material can be beveled for penetration but this way it's not really necessary. None of them are wrong as long as you bevel the edges for proper penetration. I just prefer #3
not to hijack the thread, but.. when you grind the welds, do you guys do all the way front to back, top and bottom, or just the hood opening area that shows?
I have "undid" several frames that had the #3 then ground. (I had to fix other issues, so some of the old plates needed removal) There were many places that were barely holding, so it depends on how good the welding and grinding is to begin with.
When I grind the welds on anything, I grind it full length. It makes the whole frame look finished when you are done. Never know when someone will try to peek at your work, and even if they didn't I would know it looks good the whole distance, and it makes me like it more.
There is a bigger issue here than just wanting to box the frame. If done improperly you can put a real sag in the frame rails or otherwise distort the hell out of them. You mention you are new to welding and even experienced welders need to properly support the rails and clamp everything down tight to minimize warping. If you just slide some plates in there and fire up the welder you stand a good chance of ending up with a mess on your hands and a frame that is way out of being straight. That is why you see people using frame jigs or at least some supplimental form of support to keep the frame in line during and after welding. You would be amazed how far a frame will pull from the heat of welding. You also will want to skip around with your welds rather than just running a continuous bead, letting the metal cool off a little between welds. Even using a jig there are times you may have to heat the frame and pull it back into shape after welding like this............. it just happens. As for which form of boxing I like, the step box lets you hide brake lines and wires tucked out of sight a little better IMO. Don
# 1a would be the best way. Easiest, fastest, most forgiving to irregularities, way less work, better chance of staying straight, and stronger than 3. If you want #3 attributes, build it out of tube. The corner to corner fit up is difficult with perfect material.
thanx for the tip. I have built a framtable and fixated the fram in, I will try to take it quite easy while welding, and do a bit at the time, and jump around. I will consider doing the "step box" in all of the frame then, if it's easier and holds up better.
Only problem with #1 is it gives dirt and water a place to sit and rot. But it is way nicer for running brake and fuel lines.
I inset mine about 1/8" sort of like 1a. I bolted everything up the whole car assembled so I had nuts, threaded bungs, crush tubes all tacked on the inside. When all the details were done, headlight posts, gas tank mounts, etc. done, I stripped it back down to box. Welded the nuts etc. Completely, fishplated my Z's inside, then fitted plates. When welding I constantly checked the level, AND check vertical, they will try to tip in or out. Then cut last bead or 2 & tweak, retack. Fun challenge especially without DC, have to keep flipping it and setting it back up to check. Next time I will rent a gas power that has DC reverse so I can leave it set up. Used a $40 auction welder.
I would say it somewhat depends on how well you weld and if you are concerned with weld appearance. With 2 thru 4 the tendency will be to burn the edges which will lead to a fair amount of grinding and smoothing.....which will reduce the actual weld. If you are decent welder and can draw a nice looking bead , then 1a or 1b will require far less , if any , finishing because it is not an edge.
okay think about this from a structual engineering stand point, (of which I am not) you box the rails to keep the frame from twisting, if you set the boxing plate into the frame enought that there is a 1/8 to 3/16 of a lip then weld it there is no welds to grind, no real place for dirt to catch and most importantly with the boxing plate inside it seems like flex would be less likely. of course everything here is contingent on welding capability so kinda like 1 but less lip.
Not very good for details but you can see that rounding the welds leaves a clean edge. At least I think so.
hands down the best way i have ever seen it done. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300262
#3 and tig welded. Just recently boxed in a Model a chassis this way. Started to mig it but the old azz metal would not have it so I used my scratch start tig. Also +1 to what Don's Hot Rods had to say.... Good luck man and keep us posted!
I agree... #1 but less lip, or #2 with a little more lip. For a hot rod. unless you are building a street rod and want it to look pretty ........
Not to hi-jack the thread, but what do you guys do around your crossmembers?? Any pics? Do you butt up against them and weld to them or what??
That frame is not boxed, it's just reinforced. They made it twice as heavy but not twice as strong. A true box like #3 above would make it stronger and add less weight. I did mine like #1 but that was for a variety of reasons (and it was an off-topic frame that was much wider at the bottom, leaving me a nice ledge to run my lines on).
1A 1B are good for running your fuel line and brake line, keeping them safe and protected. #3 is good for a beginner, as there is no reason to bevel your plates for penetration. Both edges are exposed to the weld bead. Allowing you to denub the welds's, and not effect the welds strength.
#3 is what I prefer...leaves a natural void for the weld...with proper set up tacking and welder setting this will make a nice finished look and minimal buffing with a 50 grit disc. It with look like a piece of rectangular tubing if time in preperation is taken. I install round tubing wire chases in req areas before boxing...make wiring and lines a breeze and no tube clamps or zip ties needed....just my .02 fabman
Tanx for all your tip. Then I have a follow up question. How do you fix youre plates when doing the step boxing to get the same distance all the way?
#3 is how I like or 1 a with less of an inward step Below are pics of my 32 original frame using # 3 method you listed above with Dagel's boxing plates
Get a few pieces of 3/16" or 1/4" flat bar about an inch wide and cut it into 1 1/2" to 2" lengths. Make a gage block so you can locate them all with the same inset into the frame. Unless you are going to do a simple model A frame, you should prolly borrrow or build somekind of a frame jig. I thought about step boxing my frame at first but ended up doing it like your #3...
What do you all do around the existing crossmembers when you box??? Pull them out, box around them, what is the proper thing to do?
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