Chrysler 354 Build Thread!!! It's Alive!!!

And if they rust in a couple months like the Chinese air cleaners do...

 

D-Russ
1. the other two you mentioned here are endorsing their own design & manufacture (if they ever become avail??) and are not re-pops of WC3D

2. My timeline and avail?... call me and we'll discuss this (i'm out of town still until monday).

3. the venturi is measured at the narrowest point of the bores in the bowl section (where it rolls down and then splays back out)... and actually, some of these sizes are cast (not stamped) onto the bridge that separates the two bores making I.D. more than easy (1." - 1.3/32" - 1.1/8" - 1.1/4")... btw - I've never seen a 1.5/32" size as documented on some other sites)... inside / outside mics will certainly confirm what you have, if there is no casting I.D.

 

I didn't see a size on the center carb, but venturies on the two outers measure 1-1/4".

 

Dave, Post a photo of the center carb also and I'll i.d. it for you (and you can also, by visually comparing the ends with your center)...

btw - some of the true 1.1/4" venturi carb bowls didn't have the numbers cast into them either (they we're smooth on the bridge), so chances are all 3 are @ 1.1/4"

Dave, another thing I see here, on both of your end carbs.... corrosion is obvious as the tops of the blades look to be pitted pretty and the blade screw heads are nearly gone... so you'll want to be sure to check that bores of the base plates are smooth & true, and that the blade edges themselves are sealed tight / completely when closed... (I do have new blades, shafts & linkage if needed).

We'll talk this next week. Larry

 

Well, I just heard from the machine shop on the condition of the 354. The heads and crank are great cores, but the block isn't perfect.

One of the bores has some notable rust pitting. The block is currently standard bore BTW. My machinist says he's happy to bore the damaged cylinder in stages until he reaches .060, but he's not sure that will clean up all the pits.

Even if .060 will clean up the pits, I'm not really all that thrilled with a .060 bore because I want to use cast pistons. And as some of you have pointed out earlier, when using stock, cast, 9:1 pistons the compression will likely be lower than advertised as the bore gets bigger.

He is suggesting putting a sleeve in that cylinder. I don't like sleeves because I've had a bad, expensive experience with using them in the past. An OT 4.2 liter AMC I built needed two sleeves because of cracks in two bores. The cracks were found through magnafluxing. Other than that the block was deemed good. Two sleeves were installed, remaining machine work performed and the motor was assembled. As soon as i fired it, a crack appeared on the outside of the block at one of the sleeved cylinders, and it started leaking coolant. My assumption is that the crack, obviously in a water jacket, occurred when the sleeves were inserted. This might be a rare freak occurrence, but it left me with a very bad opinion of sleeves.

Now back to my 354. I guess a sleeve would be OK if the necessary boring for the sleeve doesn't get into the water jackets. The good thing about the sleeve is that it would allow me to get away with perhaps a .020 or .030 overbore which would help keep the compression up.

So do you fine folks have any input or advice on sleeving the cylinder? What about cutting into the water jackets to fit the sleeve? Will it inevitably leak water into the oil?

 

I'm sure I'm not the guy you're waiting for a response on this, but:

Do you know how big he'd have to bore it to put a sleeve in? What's the sleeve wall thickness?
I read in one of the Olds Rocket threads, that the sleeve is only like .060 thick, if I remember correct.
Not sure how close the water pockets are, but that seems like no problem if you could bore the block .090 over?

So if you can bore all cylinders .020 over and need a sleeve that's like .060 thick, then you would only open the one up .080, right?

Here is from the other thread;

 

Thanks Martin, that is helpful. My machinist said the sleeve is .1875 wall thickness. The stock bore on a 354 is 3.9375. So that would mean that cylinder would have to be bored to 4.125. I suppose I could/should have that cylinder sonic checked. I'm not even sure which cylinder it is, but I might get lucky and find it has lots of material around it.

I would like to hear opinions on boring into the water jackets for a sleeve though.

 

A correctly installed sleeve will be as good, if not better than, the other 7 cylinders. The most common sleeves are available in .0625, .090, .125, .156.

What cylinder is it, and where is the problem area. Front, rear,top, bottom, thrust, or non thrust side?

 

I've also read about moving the pistons to one side.
Basically removing .040 on one side and only .020 on the other side to get your .060 over.
Which would move the crank forwards or backwards compared to the block.
But that depends on where the spot of concern is located and I'm not sure if you can do this on Hemis.

Everything I've been reading was Olds Rockets

 

I'd only "move" a hole if tests show it's not dead center above the crank throw location for that bore. If your going to check that you might want to check if the 2 decks are equal distance from the crank center line & that the decks are square to the crank, both front to rear & top to bottom.
Wouldn't think sleeves would be bored into the jackets, but one Mopar magazine cut a 1X1" hole in through the wall of a 318 & sucsessfully sleeved it. You say bore is standard? Did you ask about wear & out of round? If little wear & no out of round you might see if you could stay standard on it.

 

Hhhmmm...not sure where this comes from 'cause its not true...oops, forgot this is the internet.

Larger bore equals more swept volume equals more compression, all else being the same. You may have mistakenly assumed this from the discussion regarding the use of 392 pistons, which would produce lower compression but due specifically to a smaller dome volume.

Sleeves. The quality of the installed sleeve is in direct proportion to the abilities of the installer.
As noted, where is the problem spot?
above or below the ring travel?
can your machinist move the piston enough to clean it up?
does a sonic wall thickness check support this operation?

While the block in on the operating table, as George notes, check the decks for square and parallel. DO NOT over cut.
Check the heads to insure that the combustion chambers are similar in size. DO NOT over cut.

.

 

At least in theory oversized replacement pistons are machined a bit vs standard size to offset the gain in C/R from boring so they maintain stock C/R.

 

That was the "IN theory" part, As I was saying they supposed to be finished in a way to negate increased/decreased C/R from the overbore. If everything else was the same there should be an increase because the volume being compressed is increased by the overbore in the lenth of the piston travel vs the only increase in the chamber is the amount of wall above(if not 0 decked) the rings. Seperate thing, as Gary said, than the 392 in a 354 C/R thing. The factory fudged C/R ratings would have a role in real vs nominal C/R.

 

OK, here's a pic. It is pretty bad, and it's definitely above the rings. It's third from the front on the passenger side, on the side of the bore that's toward the outside of the block.

In an earlier post I typed the incorrect sleeve thickness too. It will likely be .09375 wall thickness.

 

Wow!

If you do end up sleeving it, I would love to see some pics of the process for a Hemi. Hint hint.

 

EEEEEEWWWWWW

I hate it when that happens.

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292239

 

That looks like that blocks made out of limestone not cast iron!!!! Hahah!!! I have a 331 sitting here for sale if ya want it . Might be a good reason to come to the Charlotte Auto Fair

 

This is way way late into the thread, however this is the first time reading the thread for me.

I just googled the SBC chev piston number you posted early on and came up with this : http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=15094

And the picture looks a lot different than what you have.
Could have saved all the mystery in identifying pistons.

Hope you get the block issues worked out, love the early hemis. I was thinking of one for my RPU, but decided on the Y block 312 instead.

 

No I haven't. I basically relied on the the oil having no water in it and the antifreeze looking ok when I pulled then engine. I've actually never pulled the heads or anything because I've been so far from actually using the engine. I do know it was a 60k engine and I was the one that pulled the engine from the car. Other then that I was kinda waiting to be surprised when I actually went to use it haha!!!


Traded off the intake today for Flathead parts!!! I got a 2x2 intake and some finned heads which I'm super excited about. Now if I could just sell that engine to pay for the Lone Star Roundup hotel I booked last night!!

 

Any update from the machine shop on the bore?

 

Sorry to take you guys away from the *outlaw garage* thread, but I've got a modest little update on a real world, common man build.

My pal Dave Hartley ('Mo on here) was kind enough to snap a few pictures of the sleeve installation into my 354 block. It went well and I ended up with just a .040 overbore on all cylinders.

Here's a couple of shots of the boring bar set up to cut the bad cylinder for the sleeve. Luckily they didn't have to cut into the water jackets.








They like to leave a ridge at the bottom of the cylinder so the sleeve can't possibly slide down.




Next, they tap in the sleeve with this aluminum thingy. It's a press fit, but not ridiculously tight.






Then the sleeve and the remainder of the cylinders get bored and honed.






And here's the finished block, patiently awaiting my next chunk of money.

 

Awsome Dave!!! I didn't think you were going to get started on that thing this soon but glad ya are! Thanks for the pics bud.

 

Looking good Dave.
You're not even able to tell which one they sleeved

Glad your making some head way on your engine.
I'm still in the tear down phase on mine.
That's why you bought yours in pieces, right

 

Thanks for the pics, looking good!

 

That's GREAT, Dave! Excited for you!

If you don't mind me asking, what did you pay to have that thing inserted?

 

It was $100 for the sleeve and labor. (and miscellaneous shop supplies, whatever that means )

 

Very nice!

 

Lookin' good, Dave. A chopped Vicky with a Hemi is pretty heady stuff for this burg, when you think about it.
I can't wait to see it develop....Will it also be getting lakes style headers?