Re-Stamping VIN Numbers...or beating dead horses...you decide!?!

Shoot...I don't want to give advice. Personally I don't see how you can be in the wrong, but according to the CHP office I spoke with you can't put a body on a frame of a different design without a Special Construction Title.

Still there have to be quite a few original A-V8's here in California that have been running around on real '32 frames with real '32 titles since Hot Rodding began. Maybe they are "grandfathered" somehow? I just don't know.

If I were in your shoes I would probably just keep driving my car, and if an issue were to arise, I'd be sure and ask the officer REALLY POLITELY what section of your states Vehicle Code you were in violation of. Unless the officer knows he's right and can cite a section that proves it, I just can't imagine that you'd face much trouble...but then again, who knows?

The story that Steves32 posted about his buddies A on a real 1932 frame sitting for years in a legal battle is the first of it's kind I'VE ever heard...but then again, who knows!?!

 

He tried that route. Check out posts #99 and #107. Apparently not a good idea in CA.

I'm in Missouri as well and it was my understanding that the vehicle year of manufacture on the title needs to match the year of the body. If it doesn't, it is supposed to get a state issued number and a reconstructed vehicle title. If that's not the case, I would love it if you would shoot me a PM and let me know who to talk to in Jeff City 'cause I'm in the same boat as Casey.

 

Alright, so here's another question... Say you have a car that fits the description of an A-V8, but was built, titled, and registered legally in another state, where you can get by just fine building it that way. How do the authorities view this vehicle if it is bought and registered in California? Is that even possible or would a resident of California not even be allowed to buy and register the car?

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think the early bodies, '48 and earlier, even had a number. Just frame numbers and also on the transmission.

I'm not too worried anyway on this one as most police will not know a '26 from a '32 body.

 

One of many reasons I love Texas. http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Texas...-Signs-Street-Rod-and-Custom-Legislation.html

 

Hey crazycasey, good footwork. I was lurking after my first few posts to see the outcome.
Good on you for running down the facts of the matter.
FWIW, a gentleman I know was able to get a special construction number last July. Unheard of, I know, but DMV got him one. They said that the economy changed the face of the special construction industry and this year, numbers were available (at least in July they were),
He got his number, went to CHP and got signed off ('33 ford truck cabbed RRod, open wheeled).
Now he has a appt. with the engine referee (blown hemi).
I'll keep you posted.

Anyway, sounds like using the outside rails on your car will be a good solution.

Bryan

 

I know that this thread is dedicated to the Model A and B Ford, and I TOTALLY appreciate the new info, since that is most likely my next project (I have the A Roadster body so far) but . . . and there's ALWAYS a but . . . it seems the if the car is a unibody, like a Mustang/Falcon and the like, you can do anything you want concerning the chassis, right up to a tube frame, since the body carries the VIN and the car never had a separate frame from the beginning.

Possibly?

 

Build your '32 frame around the Model-A like chinese dolls. That way the original frame always comes along for the ride.
Ed

 

Edwardlloyd has a very interesting idea!!
Good thinking. I like it!

I bought a 1930 running chassis. Unfortunately for me, they took the body off and used the numbers off of the frame to title it using a new custom made hot rod frame.
So I could not use the same numbers for a title.
Just a thought when you are buying a used chassis. Chances are, your frame numbers are on a "street rodded car". I ended up buying a second frame "with title". It was the easiest way I could think of getting it titled.

 

I have been thinking of doing something similar to edwardlloyd's suggestion on my currently registered '29 coupe. In essence, I would arguably just be strengthening my 80+ year old frame in a reasonable manner. I would buy the JW deuce rails and use the existing frame rails to build a '40's style x-member, keeping the frame number within inches of its stock location. With this approach, you are not altering the VIN, you can make almost full use of the existing frame rails and front and rear crossmembers, and are using the deuce side rails to reinforce the old frame. The stamped deuce rails are the closest thing to being a modern, near stock replacement part for the original Model A rails. No stamped Model A frame rails are being manufactured to my knowledge. It will take a bit of a design effort to convert the old side rails aesthetically, but nothing too difficult. I would probably keep the license and insurance current during the conversion, rather than raise a red flag by putting the car into non-op status.

Is anything obviously illegal about this approach? I don't see anything fraudulent or blatantly wrong with the approach.

A few asides, potentially complicating the approach, only as it relates to my situation: (1) I would be replacing the four banger with a 55 year old V-8 at the same time. (2) I am 90% certain the frame is not original, but have not yet pulled the body to look for the number, and confirm if the VIN matches the engine number with the motor being manufactured in 1930. So in my case, the frame either is of 1930 manufacture (matching the VIN), or the frame number is irrelevant and not being used as the VIN. (3) If the VIN number is not on the frame, I will have to deal with the VIN being the engine number, and replacement of the cracked block it has.

This is a bit complicated, but like the OP, I have no intention of committing fraud or putting my car at risk of being seized. If in the end I have to get a special construction registration, I will.

 

Old ford parts stores sell body tags and rivets that you can stamp your vin number on and place on your firewall and still be legal.

 

34 ford delivery
My 34 ford delivery was changed from a 34 ford 4 door sedan,has 350 with a cam hooker headers. one vin on the frame and the other on the fire wall and both reflict a 34 ford ,But DMV sent me to CHP and the vin guy said on the paper work that there was no public vin and blue taged me., I am contesting it I talked to his superviser But he said It was a special construction and I am concernd about smoging. The CHP guy said that if the 34 ford was not chopped and had 4 doors then the vin tags would be ok ,but its not, any thoughts would help , 34 FORD DELIVERY

 

Not in North Carolina.. very very illegal...

In North Carolina they may not prosecute, but they may seize the car, they have gotten better and better about catching this stuff. It's better to either do it legit or get a special construction.

 

I think this is rather hilarious!

All this talk on a Public Forum broadcasted on the World Wide Web regarding restamping, altering, forging federally regulated VIN numbers!

If you here a knock at the door and the guy on the other side says his name is Agent Sidanko of the F.B.I...... DON'T ANSWER IT!!!

 

Hahaha, that's what I was thinking!

 

1934 Ford serial numbers are just numbers with virtually nothing to decode except the year it was originally titled as, so I'm not clear why there's a problem unless the Sedan Delivery got a commercial number with a letter prefix or something. Edit: they may also tell if the car was a V8 or a 4-cyl originally.

 

I worked for a major trucking company for 30 years. In that time I replaced hundreds of frames. Many time the original manufacturer was out of business, so the replacement frame was not even the same make. I stamped the original numbers into the new frames, there was never an issue with it. The trucks were stopped in Ca, numerous times and there was no problem unless they were illegible. Then I would restamp them to clear the violation. This was on both trucks and trailers. We had equipment that the only thing original was the number. Just saying.

 

I think you are worried about nothing, the CHP and the DMV don't know much about 80 year old cars.

I had my model A vin check at AAA in Burbank by a clerk, she had NO idea even where it was.

All she cared about is that the number on the car matched the paperwork and I was on my way.

I had my original '32 frame check by the State Patrol here in Colorado. He had no idea if the numbers were stamped from Ford or by someone else. I had to tell him the VIN was from Ford.

 

I was always told that there are more "original" 67 427 Corvettes on the road than that were manufactured..

Considering they made only 23,000 Vettes altogether in 67, and they can't keep them straight.

I don't see them keeping track of 4,320,446 Model A's in 50 different states, etc...


cb1

 

If it were me and I was worried about the vin. on the frame I would section that piece in and make it look right. NOT vin. tampering. Just a repair. And it was that way when I bought it.

 

Registered as far back as 84-years-ago too.

 

really? all the states are linking their dmv networks to a centralized federal database. it's really easy and you will see more and more of it. You may not see it, but it sees you.

 

Yeah, but how many are digitizing old records of out-of-registration automobiles, from many decades ago?

 

People have already been getting snagged for the same numbers being used for more than one car. So they probably won't put all the old ones in, but each time someone uses an old "historical document" or has a VIN check done they make it in. Or someone uses the number off of an old frame then that old frame makes under another car.

 

There is no firewall tag on an A ..... [ dead give away for a fraud ] the # is stamped on top of the frame under the body ...can,t see it anyway ...... engine # were usually the same as frame # at least on trucks anyway

 

The factory stamped the vin in the frame as it was going down the assembly line and they took it off the motor number just before they put the body on. Thats for all body styles , the style number was on the cowl...just stamp your vin number in your frame where the orginal would be and leave it at that. Keep the frame hanging, your thinking about it to much.... Hell, I know cops who have done it that way.

 

Ha Ha YEA!

Honest cops!

They have a badge... we don't!

Remember... they get immunity and professional courtesy!

 

To everybody who has said I am crazy for posting about this topic on a public forum, and not to answer my door when the Feds come knocking...you must be pretty afraid of your government. I am not talking about doing anything illegal. The whole point of this thread was finding the legal way to register an A-V8. We have pretty much laid out the fact that re-stamping a VIN number, while maybe not in and of itself completely illegal, is probably a BAD idea.

If we can't use the interweb for sharing information and discussing how to enjoy our hobby while operating within the confines of our basic laws, then what's the point of being an American?

To the guy with the 34 Ford...that's crazy. The CHP officer said the car was a special construction because it had a chop? Just one more reason to avoid having to go to the CHP for inspection I guess. That said, our local guy is pretty cool, and seems to "get it".

Thanks,
Casey

 

Check with your state dmv for a new state issued vin tag.I bought a car 2 years ago and it had a title and the hidden numbers match but the vin tag was missing.I applied for a new vin ,had to send a copy of the title and an affidavit as to why it was missing.2 weeks later they sent me a new KY vin tag using the original number. It did not cost me anything and i didn't have to tamper with any numbers .

 

Stamp the frame and get on with life.....people do this all the time