The elusive 224/3.7 MerCruiser banger

Being of Jeep origin, my car had jeep cross steering. (I did not know what it was called) I took it out as it took up the only room I had for a much lower radiator located ahead of the axle. Those rods seemed to run everywhere. Removing that steering let me lower my car body 3". Replacing it with rack and pinion gave me faster and much more positive steering. Its big heavy steering box was bolted to the rear of its front bumper, I'd see that long steering shaft aimed back at me and would think bad thoughts about it impaling me in a collision.

You and I bought the same balancer. It is a pretty black thing with several timing scales [I painted over the extra ones]. I found a front pulley at a swapmeet and changed it to bolt onto the balancer . It is about the same OD as the balancer. It was out of the 1950's. I cut most of its center away so It would simply bolt onto the balancer using the nice little holes toward the outside of its center.

The waterpump is one which I chose from 50 boxes of them at a local parts
store, they let me go back there and rummage around until I found one. I just opened boxes till one looked right. It is for a late 70's Corolla.

I went to a wrecking yard and bought a few pulleys from Japanese imports that looked as if they might work. One two groove pulley with a lot of offset came closest. I cut away the extra groove. It needed different mounting holes, but its center hole was right.

The dampener pulley only needed a few thin AN washers to space it forward enough to line up nicely with the pump pulley.

I never did spec any of this out by number. I'd just look around and buy several which might work, try them and if possible, return the parts which did not fit. It helps to go to the same store a lot as they become friends and will accommodate you.

 

note, the pulley on the balancer is only a few thousandths away from the balancer.

 

I heard from the gentleman with the Boss headed Mercruiser dragster who whittled my flywheel. "New house and shop. I'm still looking for photos of the 4 cyl. dragster in 4 boxes of photos. Found one shot of the cage/dash so I know they're in there."

 

I'm still looking for the pics of my dragster in '86 with the 485 in it.
This engine is alive and doing well in NHRA Comp.
Clint Neff drives a K/A and won the Mile High race in Denver last year ('11)
Here's a video of one round
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5WLs0JurF8&feature=related

The car went 8.32 at that alltitude and has run as fast as 7.78 @ 168.6 MPH!

How's that for a 4 banger with no power adders!

Here's a shot of the new engine "Diana" and the car

 

Dick, It has been a couple years but I've a foggy memory of cutting the center out of my lower pulley on a lathe and fitting it to a nest on my balancer. I probably took a partial facing cut off of the balancer to form the nest so the pulley would be centered and stay there. The mounting bolts were small and I'd hesitate to put much load on them.

 

Here are some pictures from last season. This is the 3.7 Mercruiser motor. It is bored .030 over and the original crank was offset ground to 4.050. It has a 600 cfm 4 barrel and we run it on alcohol. The last picture is of the new drysump system we are installing for next season.

 

I'll ask the obvious, How far from the original mercruiser engine is this one?

in for example:
time between overhauls...
compression.....................
camshaft..........................
stroke...............................
carburation.......................
rpm...................................
car weight.........................

 

A friend suggested that I use double wire hydraulic hoses, They were expensive and not very flexible. It looks as if you are using them also.
If the oil system only makes 60 psi, what advantage is there in such a strong hose? Blue Parker pushlock rated for 400 psi and is easy to work with and much less expensive. Wouldn't it be equally good?

 

Probably so but my cousin had this lying in his shop form a Nascar sale and said I could use it. Needless to say, I didn't turn him down on the offer.

 

Completely understandable... by the way, that is a very fancy pump.

 

its amazing how much power some people are getting out of these "little" 4's.

From what ive read these 470s can use pretty much any ford 460 head? Thats amazing if its true.

 

It's true. We have an aluminum super cobra jet ford motorsport head on ours but it will accept any 460 ford head that has the 10 head bolt design. I would like to try the Trick Flow A460 head and a roller cam in the future.

 

What I think is amazing about these "little" 4s is that they are not little in the modern sense.

Way Back In The Day big displacement 4 cylinder engines were common. Some had over 500 cu/in displacement.

However they weren't able to turn many rpm due to the inherent imbalance of an in-line 4.

The 2.5 and 3 liter Chevrolet industrial 4 that Mercury Marine uses in their 120/140 Mercruiser and the 3.7 liter 470 Mercruiser are about the only large displacement 4 cylinder engines that can turn a decent number of rpm for any significant amount of time.

Other modern 4 cylinder engines of any significant displacement use counter rotating balance shafts to keep the harmonics down.

Mercury Marine engineers have made in-line 4s for years and were able to maximize the balance and dampen the vibrations of these engines.

Some have said that these engines are shakers however the proof of how well they are engineered is in the fact that these engines can run in a boat at 4800 rpm for thousands of hours without damaging themselves.

When we install them in a car and drive them in a normal manner and only run them up to peek rpm occasionally while going through the gears they will perform for many years.

Those that run them in dragsters will also find them to be very robust in that the crank is as stout if not stouter than a 460 ford crank while only having to support 4 cylinders.

The crank throws are only 1/2 as wide as the V8 throws.

I think that these engines will last about the same as their big step brothers the 460 Ford V8s under racing conditions.

As we all know many race engines are torn down after each race or at least after each season and completely rebuilt.

About the only draw back to these engines is the out side dimensions.

While they are narrower than a common V8 they are about as long and high so they do require some room to install.

Last Saturday I went to a car show where there were both a Austin Healy and a Sprite.

I looked into the Austin Healy engine compartment where an in-line 6 sat and determined that a 470 might fit if it weren't too high to clear the hood without modification of the hood.

The Sprite would have had to be modified to the point of having the driver position move back into the trunk.

After I have installed a 470 in a Model A I will be better able to determine what else that they will fit in when all of the peripherals have been installed.

I am also going to try to install one in my 544 Volvo. After the car show a friend of mine who is installing a Chevy V6 in his Volvo came by to measure my currently stock Volvo front suspension to see what angle the front suspension sits at when stock.

He admitted that he didn't note how it looked before he tore it down. A good thing to remember. Take pictures before tear down.

Anyway I believe these engines are the best alternative to a V8 in a light vehicle.

The benefits of light weight, low cost, high torque, simplicity and durability are hard to match.

Dick

 

Do tell. Did you upgrade to a roller valve train etc then when you did this?

What all was required? From what i read that head has to have tappet or hydraulic rollers?

 

Any old ford 460 head. I'm using one straight out of a wrecking yard.

 

mercruiser 470 in spitfire/sprite

Leave the driver in his usual place so it looks right. Place the engine beside the driver where the passenger would fit. Use a short axle and a long axle so it lines up.
I had a Spitfire and am assuming a Sprite is made the same way.
For its frame, the center would have to be shifted over to one side.
Anyone wanting a spitfire frame can come by and have my old one.
(You'd want two frames to work this out).

The engine would solve that car's complete and absolute lack of power.

Another option would be to lay the engine over and use an off center driveshaft.

 

Dick, that would really be a rumble seat! It would give away that something is going on though.<label for="rb_iconid_10"></label>
The pedals(clutch and brake) are all hydraulic so they'd move easily. The steering can be extended straight back with a u joint. I've remote mounted shift levers with a simple linkage.
I'd still just use the same differential until it broke because the stress on it depends on the car's weight and that is unchanged.
It would not be a bad option.

 

jmayabb-

Do you have any more pictures/details on what water pump setup youre running?

The question is, with a super cobra jet type head and roller rockers, and a different cam? Would it make much of a power difference?

 

I think a little recap is warranted. This thread has gotten long and included more information than I could have hoped for. If any of the below info is wrong or need clarification please post it up. I'll try to edit in anything that needs changing.

Bore: 4.36" (stock, OEM 460 Ford)
Stroke: 3.75"
Cylinder Head: Any standard head designed for the common 429/460 Ford
Deck Heigth: 10.272" (not confirmed)
Piston Pin Height: 1.772" (OEM 460 Ford)
Rod Length: 6.605" (not confirmed)
Starter: International Starter Bolts Up or Engine Specific Mini-Starter
Transmission Fitment: Smallblock Chevy "Barn" bellhousing is a very close fit
Automatic Flexplate: ?
Block Modification to Accept Transmission: -5/8" off rear of block
Crank Modification to Accept Throwout Bearing: Mercruiser Crank not machined for pilot bushing
Manual Flywheel: Small Block Ford, Zero Imbalance
Clutch Disc: ?
Front Damper: Smallblock Ford, Zero Imbalance

 

They may not damage themselves but according to a former Mercruiser service tech I knew, they DO shake the V-drive in the boat apart pretty fast.

Shawn

 

It's not.

I have a Midget, same chassis as a Sprite.

They're unibody. They look more like a shrunk E-type under all the skin.

The Triumph is body-on-frame.

Shawn

 

Although a Spitfire frame was heavy in comparison, the triumph body weighs very little...good thing too as there was almost no power to move it.

 

----------------------------------------------
I'd expect a small block Ford flexplate to work but I'm not sure about it or the transmission
so someone will need to add them

 

We run a remote mount electric water pump. I don't have any pictures at the moment but I will try to get some.

The downfall right now is the camshaft. We run the stock flat tappet camshaft and have it reground. Regular 460 roller lifters will fit in the block but I haven't found anyone that can make a roller cam for it without spending $3000 to $5000 dollars. There are some guys that can make them but can't put the distributor gear on it. If you run a front drive distributor it's no big deal but if you run the stock type distributor it's a problem. I guess the best solution would be to run a front drive distributor on it and have a cam made.

 

So it sounds like either way with these issues and trying to retain the stock Dist location the only thing that can be used is flat tappet type. Is there much of a difference between the brands and types of flat tappets?

So did you just have the cam reground for higher/longer intake/exhaust duration?

 

Here are the specs we have on a stock reground camshaft by Demos cams in Georgia.

Cam is .252 and .258 at .050. Lift is .665 on a 114 lobe center.

 

0.665" lift sounds wayyyy too big.

 

I had mine reground* with about 40 degrees less duration for increased low rpm torque at speeds the engine would usually be running. It worked out well as I do not need high rpm power from it. and I run softer valve springs for longer cam life.

* [ can't find my cam card]

 

Above Quote is from long ago

reply: I now use a F1 front axle [ the jeep axle was massive and ugly]. the jeep rear end was from a 1975 DJ5 but would be the same as a CJ5. For me its gears were too low so I changed out the 3.72 ratio for a 3.07 ratio BIG difference. Next build has an 8" ford rear end. but I want disk brakes on the front and am scratching my head on that as a ranger axle has disk brakes but the axle halves are bent at various angles to pass by eachother..That would have to be heated to red and flattened in a press and welded into a single I beam. {There are big letters on the ranger axles saying "do not heat or bend or weld". maby I will adapt disks to an f1 axle they can be welded and a kingpin axle jigs up more easily than a ball joint axle.
I wanted the 8" axle as it is sufficently strong but lighter than the 9" one but still has a removable carrier for easy ratio changes.

 

It would be with a stock head but we have the aftermarket aluminum super cobra jet head on the motor.