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Anyone attemptin a Truly Period PERFECT Build?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by dlotraf, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. dlotraf
    Joined: Apr 7, 2010
    Posts: 112

    dlotraf
    Member

    *Please lets keep the Negative Comments out of this thread*

    It would be interesting to find out anyone who has attempted, is, has, or even contemplating a "Truly Period Perfect Build". Either a hot rod or custom.

    And by Period Perfect, I mean not only with the vehicle, drive train, parts, but also the techniques and Tools available at that time. Available to the average guy, not the fella that worked in a machine shop, or airplane factory.

    Now I am Not knocking anyone's build, the tools they use, or in anyway saying "just because you used a MIG welder, it's not period correct". I just find the idea intriguing. The challenge, and the satisfaction one might get from building a nice vehicle without the use of all the wonderful modern tools we all have. I'm pretty sure I can't do it. I'm 54 and still cannot cut a straight line with a hand held hack saw. Some of you have probably seen a show that was on PBS called the Millwright. He would use an axe and draw knife and whittle out a crude chair. But he made it just the way it was made in the 1700's. I thought the show was stupid. But now I can appreciate what he was doing. I'd like to see if anyone else is trying this, or has thought about it.

    If you have to ask why? Then you don't get it. sure a lot of things were cruder. But I've seen stick welds that looked almost as pretty as a nice tig job. I think patience would have to be the most difficult thing in such an attempt. It would be hard for me not to want to pick up the angle grinder with the cutoff wheel (my personal favorite of modern tools). I still stick weld anything that is critical for strength. There was a time many moons ago I could weld sheet metal, good enough for race cars, with a stick welder. I found these very small rods, might have been 1/16", and with clean metal and practice it was good enough for a stock car.

    I used to say "Anyone can fix it with the proper tools, It takes a mechanic to fix it with a hammer and chisel."

    So how about it. Your personal attempt or thought about this type of build. And if anyone is making a serious attempt at this I would really like to hear about it.
     
  2. Kudos to those who have the time, patience, skills and dedication to build a car this way, especially if they're planning on driving them.....A LOT.

    See for some its about the build process, for others its in the driving.

    Im kinda partial to both.

    I think that there is an inverse relationship these days between those who are prepared to build a car this way and the way society functions today.

    Rat
     
  3. 343w
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 1,486

    343w
    Member

    I'm collecting parts for a period 50's 32 tudor sedan. I have a wire welder and stick welder, but the chassis will be stick done. The frame rails are repo, (don't have original), but the crossmembers are sectioned 40 ford, and the x-member is 40 ford as well.The running gear is 54 Desoto hemi, 39 ford top shifter, and 40 Ford rear. Also using 40 swing pedals and 16" steelies w/ bias ply tires. I started reading Hot Rod magizines in the late 50's and always wanted a 32 tudor, I've had a bunch of 40 Fords so figured it would be a good running gear. I've gotten most of my parts and pieces here on the Hamb from all parts of the country as you guys know. This site is a life saver to us scroungers. I'm also collecting parts for a 53 Victoria for the wife so expect to hear from me in that regard folks. <><
     
  4. 48 Chubby
    Joined: Apr 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,014

    48 Chubby
    Member Emeritus

    Interesting concept. But taken to the purest form most of us would never know about the car unless it was our own.
    Because it would have been built with out the benefit of internet resources, including the HAMB.
     

  5. Oh crap, and I was trying so hard too !:):)
    That leaves all of us out.
    So far everything i have was either available in or earlier than 1962. Some are reproduction some is original, The rest is fabricated. Not an easy feat even with the internet, paypal, credit cards, or the HAMB. It's been over 20 years since I have personally seen early 60s tin in the local boneyards but I see it on the internet. I have some old tools involved but more of them are modern late models.
     
  6. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,628

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    Well I think my Car would have been close to the concept only because it didn't require any welding. It was put together just how a lot of guys would have back in 1957 from what I would gather. The dash was tig welded though and I have 2 nylocs on the underside of the TT clamshell so it's not perfect in terms of "period" at least not in the way that's intended for this thread.

    The Longley's (Chuck & Mike) supposedly restore cars like the Pete Henderson Roadster using nothing but original parts and tools available during the day.

    I like the idea and would love to learn how to torch weld to shoot for it one day.
     
  7. exStreamliner
    Joined: Apr 7, 2009
    Posts: 1,553

    exStreamliner
    Member

  8. dlotraf
    Joined: Apr 7, 2010
    Posts: 112

    dlotraf
    Member

    That is very true. Just like you can't go to a junk yard, (not very much) anymore for parts. It's mostly late model, the old stuff is late 70's 80's, if that hasn't been crushed. Although there are a few around still.

    I think it would be impossible to do this in the purest form. Although some one somewhere might be doing it. Strictly from acquiring parts. I've heard guys talk about driving one, saying this is how it sounded, felt, and even smelled. A time machine. You get the feeling this might be how it felt to drive one back then.

    I'm thinking of the building mostly. And maybe many will think the idea nuts. I thought it was nuts to carve a crude chair when you could go buy one or make a better one with power tools. But somewhere there is a lady in a Prius that just past a hot rod, and she is thinking "Why would someone want to drive that old (1932), ugly (Ford 5w Coupe), noisy (lake pipes), gas guzzling (239 cid. flathead, 2 97's on slingshot manifold), car. It has no fenders, or hood. The back tires are bald (piecrust slicks), and it has no air-cond." and the fellow in the Coupe is thinking "Why would you even want to own a Prius".

    We could all just buy the cars. But remember the big grin you get when someone asks where did you buy that part and you told em you made it. I made a triple tree for a chopper once. Used a crappy table top drill press, and a hack saw and grinder. 1" thick alum., had to have the holes for fork tubes at an angle. Drilled alot of little holes, knocked the centers out, ground and ground and ground, with a big round hand file till the tubes fit nice. When I was done it looked like it had been machined. I was especially proud of that part. It took me probably 20 hrs to make it. But it couldn't be bought, and had I known about CNC machines, I couldn't have afforded it.
     
  9. onedge
    Joined: May 25, 2006
    Posts: 999

    onedge
    Member

    Great subject title. This could really turn into something.
     
  10. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,843

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    Im not sure If my roadster fits the category. Scratch built frame arced together Homemade shifter,Old cargo shoot ,40 ford wheel 48 ford steering box.Homemade column drop,Pre 1958 halibrands, Repo fronts ,ect....Im going for a period correct look,Its a fiberglass body though,But Im faking it out Installed Steel wheel wells and still working on front firewall using part of a 29 tank,Running door handles and an original 32 grille and insert,No billet at all. Frame was just 2 badly rusted 32 rails.,
     
  11. Sir Woosh
    Joined: Dec 1, 2008
    Posts: 2,273

    Sir Woosh
    Member

    A recent issue of Car Craft with the Krass and Bernie story in it showed them doing just that. The car was not Hamb friendly as it was a 69 Camaro. But they side stepped all air and power tools and other modern conveniences doing all by hand as in the past. When the car was finished, it showed them looking like body builders for the extra muscle it too to do it the traditional way.

    LOVE the concept! But it also brought forth that spot of humor I had to share.....................
     
  12. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,187

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    Not me, but a friend of mine who passed away a couple years ago did. Arliss Lewis would drive back east from Tucson to harvest certain trees (not sure what) and season the wood on his barn roof. The older seasoned wood he would hand carve into Model T wheels- spokes, rims and hubs. No modern hardware, fit tight and stayed tight.

    He would use these on his Ford Model Ts that he built and kept running with basic tools. No MIG welders, no internet. I don't recall seeing any air tools there either.
    Some of his cars had Frontenac heads, Rocky Mountain brakes, "fat-man" foldable steering wheels - all kinds of neat stuff.

    When he died all his stuff went scattered across America. No family interest in cars.
     
  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,934

    squirrel
    Member

    There was a guy making horse drawn wagons in Sonoita, I visited his shop a few years ago, it was all done the old way....but the market dried up and he got out of the business. He had an amazing collection of hammers next to his forge.

    I don't know anyone else who is determined enough to use just old techniques, but I do know one guy who's trying hard to put only 1950s and older parts on his car. He does have a few newer things, but not much.

    I'm too damn lazy to go back to stick welding, but I do use my torch for some sheetmetal and exhaust work.
     
  14. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    dlotraf, Thank you for starting this thread, it will be a good one. Count me in as one that "Gets It", based on a lifetime of studing cars, and restorations. My Lyndwood rail is a restoration to how it looked in July of 1962, I have photos as a guide to produce the finished product. The frame was stick welded by Pat Bilbow in 1959, raced until 1962 and held a NHRA record at one point in time. It did that with the weld spatter marks, and light rust pits in the Ford parts that came from a junk yard. I wasn't going to be the guy to grind those things smooth, there was no reason to. My 1930 Ford Roadster project started as an old Hot Rod body I found in 1962, and is my current project. The goal it to have a car I could have built in 1962 if I had the skill and funds. This will be a 1962 build with nothing newer. I don't count Brookville replacement body parts or good reproduction parts as cheating, but REAL parts give the car its soul. Some time around 1961-62 my Dad was a cop and the adult advisor to the local Hot Rod club. One night we went to look at the project the club president had under way, I was really impressed! A metalic blue '32 chassis with a full race flathead, aluminum heads red plug wires, the picture is still clear in my head. Fast forward to 25 years later and I was the owner of the exact same chassis. It realy shattered that early picture, horable welds, and torch cut stuff everywere. I sold it at Hershey for $200.00 had have been kicking myself ever since, now I'll be buying repo rails.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  15. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    There are more of us than you may think. Perfection is almost impossible to achieve. I know that I won't get it perfect but as Alabama once sang..."she's close enough to perfect for me".:D

    My current project has a fictional build date of 1963 so it is not nearly as challenging as a 1951 build date. I'm pretty far out there in my desire for correctness but there are others that make me look like a piker.

    All my buddies think I'm nuts. That's OK. I recently took off a perfectly fine new alternator and rebuilt a generator just for the look. On an early FE Ford you have to hunt to find it unlike a flathead but for those that care it will be there. I built my own headers to resemble early 50s Hedman style instead of buying the more modern style available today. They look old and not performance oriented.(they have to be better than the Ford exhaust manifold bricks.)

    I figure if I can make it in my garage with a welder and a torch like the guys did back then then it meets my requirements for period correctness and this is the heart of any controversy. What's close enough for one guy is blasphemy to some purists. I love this place because there are a lot of people like me. I don't understand the hatred for the guys like me that really care and make an effort to do it.

    Posts like this makes it nice to know that I am not alone.

    I hope this stays an adult discussion and does not deteriorate into US against THEM battles. Why do I feel like I need to defend my likes and desires?:D
     
  16. dlotraf
    Joined: Apr 7, 2010
    Posts: 112

    dlotraf
    Member

    I've got 3 projects. A 66 Chevy C10, a 48 Ford/50 International hot rod truck, and a 28 Model A RPU. I drive em all, or will when the 28 is done. I haven't posted them to the HAMB, because I don't consider them Traditional, even though the 28 is more Traditional. They were all done by me, in a 2 car garage. I did use a MIG, angle grinder, die grinders, hole cutters, and of course ebay and the HAMB.

    I remember reading in a magazine once how guys were painting cars with bug sprayers. You remember the one's that looked like an old bicycle hand pump with a can on the bottom. Saw some decent paint jobs.

    My 28 is not period correct in any real sense. It's my take on what I might have started if I had started High School in 1957, (instead of being born that year) and worked on thru High School and what it might have looked like when I started college or joined the army kinda build. I have used some period parts. A bunch of knock off stuff, but for the most part it has the late 50's early 60's feel. The main exceptions, auto trans, and the body. I started with a 28 cowl and made the rear of the cab. I drive em and wanted more safety so the cab is basically sheet metal over a roll cage. 1 5/8" DOM door bars with vertical braces as well. Just about like we put in the cabin of a Stock Car. Originally I wanted no doors, but it's a highboy, and my old fat ass was going to have trouble getting in so I made a partial door on the passenger side. It doesn't go all the way to the sill as I was not willing to cut the lower door bar, it's right at bumper height.

    It just kinda got me thinking what I would have had to work with, tool wise, shop wise, and so forth in the 57 to 61 time frame. And could I do it now with those same tools. And so the thread.
     
  17. I'd like to nominate Frank Morawski's restoration of the 1951 Fred Carrillo modified roadster for the title of "Truly Period Perfect". Frank and I bought the car in very rough condition in the mid 70's and it took the better part of 30 years to identify and then locate every component that wan on the car in 1951.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. walter
    Joined: Nov 4, 2007
    Posts: 635

    walter
    Member

    I have been building my roadster with only parts available 1950 and older. Some are reproduction but all of the main pieces are real Henry. I am hoping that when it is finaly on the road the guages will be one of the few newer parts. The one thing that I have learned during the build is that ther are geting to be less old guys to help with the info nescesary to build pre 50's cars. The other thing is that it is very $$$$ to do this type of build and it takes about three times as long. I think the end result will be worth it.
    Walter
     
  19. loudpedal
    Joined: Mar 23, 2004
    Posts: 2,201

    loudpedal
    Member
    from SLC Utah

    People are doing it. I've done 2 late 40's Period Correct builds in the last few years. Did everything myself. I used only period parts, and when I couldn't find the speed parts I wanted, I cast my own parts in my driveway. I stiched up the interior and the tonau cover. I made the seat frame and all of the interior pannels. Dropped my own axle and made all of the frame mods. I don't have any fancy tools, save for my mil, and it's not really that fancy. Body work was done using hammer, dolly and lead (and a TIG welder ...did I cheat?). I used single-stage modern paint and a spray gun, but how much less work it that really?? You still have to cut and rub it if you want it to look good. Modern paint, new rubber, battery and oil. Yeah, I used a mil, a MIG & a TIG. MIG & TIG welders did exist (I'm told). Did I cheat? I can tell you if I only had a torch, I'd have done it that way ...and I'd have found a mill to use. When you want it bad enough, you do what it takes.

    So, is it TRULY period corret? I say yes it is.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. hrm2k
    Joined: Oct 2, 2007
    Posts: 4,839

    hrm2k
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Rich is correct. I got to help out a little on the Carrillo restoration. EVERYTHING...........I mean EVERYTHING was period period. Even the air in some of the tires was period correct. :D

    And while we are at it, the restoration of the ( can't tell you yet ) dragster from 1964 is another period perfect restoration. :)


    [​IMG]
     
  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    I've seen the Carrillo car at Hershey, along with other Hot Rods in the past years, and they all share that same "Just Right" look for the most part. A restored INDY car in the same class will look better because when first built it was, but AACA judges the cars to how they looked in the day they raced. Both cars can piont the same, and often do.
     
  22. dlotraf
    Joined: Apr 7, 2010
    Posts: 112

    dlotraf
    Member

    I for one do not think you are NUTS. There probably was I time that I would have. Now I find it somewhat amusing that a guy will be dead set on no part on his A newer than say 1960, had to be period correct. But then will fire up the computer troll ebay to find that certain part. Go out into the shop grab the plasma cutter, and then email the CAD drawing to a shop to have another part CNC machined.............:D

    But on the other hand I am pretty sure that I am NUTS........... You are not alone.........

    Lastly I am pleased that so far the discussion is pleasant. I was afraid it would digress rapidly. I thank all of you for that.
     
  23. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,934

    squirrel
    Member

    In this game you can only cheat yourself...so it should only matter to you whether or not you "cheated". If using modern equipment and techniques meant the difference between getting the car done or not getting it done, then I'd have to say you did the right thing.
     
  24. dlotraf
    Joined: Apr 7, 2010
    Posts: 112

    dlotraf
    Member

    All I can say is SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET..................:D
     
  25. dlotraf
    Joined: Apr 7, 2010
    Posts: 112

    dlotraf
    Member

    Just wanted to say, some really nice posts. Too many good ones to comment on them all. My hats off to you guys with the determination to try to get close to perfect on your builds. I personally do not have the funds or skill to take it that far, yet. Maybe I'll hit the lottery, oh you gotta buy a ticket.........., and live long enough to refine my limited skills. I have noticed in the last few years some of the almost dead arts are returning. There are some young and great metal workers in this hobby now, and pinstripers, and the list, Hopefully, will just go on................
     
  26. The first time I did my O/T car I did it without electricity. Go ahead and call me a wuss for going the easy rooute. I think it's great when people do it, though, but I don't have the patience. I also prefer 12 volt systems and radial tires. I want to drife the crap out of them, so compromises like that are for practicality AND SAFETY. Yes, 6volts, bias plys and 4 wheel drums can do the job safely, but I don't personally think it's "wrong" to "update" when the esthetic is maintained.

    By the way, the pics of people who built them that way are pretty fine lookin rides.
     
  27. choppedsled
    Joined: Jun 2, 2007
    Posts: 301

    choppedsled
    Member
    from Spokane WA

    Kris,

    My favorite roadster of all time. I just can't get enough of it. It's the inspration for my next build, with a body I aquired a year ago. Hope I can pick your brain when I start mine this fall.

    Absolutly Perfect!

    Jesse
     
  28. hotroddeuce
    Joined: Feb 13, 2009
    Posts: 296

    hotroddeuce
    Member
    from Mi

    don't know if my 3 window qualifies what your talking about, sorry if not(see link in my sig) but Everthing I did on this is 61-62 build period when chassis was done I added all the other old period correct guages some old chrome, old int. and lots of other stuff to be period correct even old bolts. I used to restore off topic muscle cars and this was a bigger challenge finding correct and right patina parts to make it looks as it does now.
     
  29. exStreamliner
    Joined: Apr 7, 2009
    Posts: 1,553

    exStreamliner
    Member

    This was my first Hot Rod... started it in 73 before period correct was even a subject... got lucky cause I only liked old stuff... so, it is a pre 57 rod... except for gauges and Worthington side rails with stock center members... hasn't changed since 91 when it was finally done... look at the bright side - I didn't have to pay top dollar for vintage parts since no one wanted them in the days of Resto-Rods... yeah, for some reason I still own it

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  30. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    boggles the mind...

    Using all period correct parts is one thing, but building it using all period correct tools and techniques is another.

    You'd also have to have a correct vehicle to use to search for the car, then have correct tools from that era to unearth the car...using only correct tools to load and tie-down the car on a period correct trailer. And then use only roads from that era to traverse back to your correct garage with only correct gas and oil from that era in your engine...no thanks. I'll just stick to using the real parts only.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.

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