50 Hudson trans service, NEED SOME ADVICE

Hey Guys, I'm kinda lost when it come to my 50 Hudson Pacemaker transmission, its a 3speed w/ the electronic O/D
I have the car running now and all new brake system,
My question is, Is there some special type of servicing for the clutch?
I have heard of some Hudsonite oil,is that for a manual trans?
the car moves but it slips pretty bad, it did sit for ten years, just wondering if I have to replace it or if theres a way to service it ???
any info would be great.

thanks...
Mike

 

I think someone's pulling your Chain. Oil on the clutch isn't going to stop it from slipping. Just check the adjustment for total release. You should have some (1/2" or so) freeplay at the top of the clutch pedal. If so remove the clutch inspection cover and take a look. You may have just found why it was parked back when.
The Wizzard

 

I have a 51 hudson pacemaker. If your 50 is a standard like mine the clutch is made of cork and needs fluid in it so the cork can stick/ slip. The throw out bearing has a seal that hardens with age.

 

yeah thats what I think I have is the cork setup, how is the fluid applied?

 

yeah thats what I think I have is the cork setup,

how is the fluid applied?

 

Above the starter on the drivers side their is an access hole. Turn the flywheel untill their is a plug visible. your flywheel will probably have two plugs. If your car has not been driven religously for some time I would flush the clutch and fill.

 

The Hudson restorers make new Hudsonite clutch oil. Many things have been used as a substitute but none of them will give you the proper engage /release and longevity of genuine Hudsonite. Find it, use it. 1/3 pint is all it takes.

 

Rusty and OutThere are right. You have to talk to Hudson people. It's a "wet" clutch using cork. Hudsonite is available on the 'net, if you search it by name. Drain the old, refill with new.

If it's been sitting as long as you say, a close inspection of moving parts may be in order, in addition to adjustments just like a dry clutch.

 

Good Lord!! I just learned something. I'm 60+ years old and did not know about Wet Clutch's. I had heard about them way back but never had a chance to work on one. I'm going to mark this day on the Calender.

 

Hudson used them from way back. Wet clutch was an unofficial term I heard as a kid about Hudsons. Not like the dry clutches that were pretty standard. Without Hudosnite, the cork wouldn't have lasted long against the flywheel.

But what would you call a clutch that takes an oil product?

 

OK, I don't know where Rust County P.N.W. But owned a Hudson, and I don't claim to be an expert. I suggested you listen to a couple of the real Hudson guys on the H.A.M.B. Here are real quotes from two of them.


StillOutThere said 8/26/09;4268375]One quick comment on oil filled cork clutches like Hudson's used from 1912 (as I recall) through 1954 (on the big cars - the little Jet had a dry clutch).

If any of you wrench on some of the biggest and baddest fork lifts that the industrial or military fields have to offer, YOU KNOW that many of those beasts run CORK CLUTCHES running in oil. When the oil is forced out of the cork by the pressure plate engagement, the torque that can be overcome is INCREDIBLE! Those are full discs of cork. Hudson used something more like thin bottle corks pressed through a steel clutch disc and machined to spec - it was a labor intensive process then and still is today for restorers. "Hudsonite" clutch oil has been reproduced and is readily available from a hobby supplier.[/QUOTE]



Hudsonator said 8/26/09: "The oil-bath, cork lined clutch is surprizingly tough. Tough enough to have twisted the input shaft on a few Hudson transmissions for me, and I've never clutch-dumped any of them."

 

The Hudson clutch was wild. The clutch plate was a steel disc with round holes drilled in it. To reline the clutch, you stuck corks through the holes like wine bottle corks. Then trimmed them off with a razor blade. Hudson dealers had a jig for this.

The clutch housing was sealed and at oil change time you poured a little Hudsonite clutch oil into the housing. There was an old Hudson dealer near me, they sold Hudsonite in little cans like you used to see for upper cylinder oil, rad seal etc.

The Hudson clutch was very smooth and long wearing and hard to burn out as long as you kept it full of oil.

Most motorcycles use a wet clutch and most of them used to be lined with corks. No doubt they have something more high tech today but the cork in oil system worked just fine.

 

Just check Tim Flock's comments on the reliable, cool-running, low-riding, powerful (in its time) Hornets racing in NASCAR from '51 through early '54.

 

You can change the fluid by removing the lower inspection cover, locate and remove the plug in the flywheel and draining what little is left if any. Then refill thru the same hole rotated to line up with the service hole on the drivers' side of the engine. You will need a funnel with some line hooked up to fill without spilling.

Slippage probably means the clutch is worn out. Flushing usually will not correct slippage in my experience, and I flushed and filled quite a few back in the day. They also may leak the fluid out... if you replace it remember there's a gasket!

 

Thanks, 46Mercury. Anyone doubts how the Hudson system work, read this:

www.phelpsclan.com/Hudson/clutch.html

 

there is a clutch flush in the procedure manual. it would be easy for you since the car runs and can be brought to temp. it is filled with something like kerosene but don't quote me on that. then drained and the hudsonite put in. didn't help mine it had sat for so long half the corks came out on the flywheel the other half came out on the pressure plate. but mine was thin anyway.
i talked to 2 of the current clutch restorers and i think the cork is set up in a press or something and is mashed in after installed in the disc. one is ron fellows in texas, the other is dr doug in indiana i think. both are great sources of info, parts, and quality work.

 

another insteresting thing about that cork clutch that i remembered is Mr fellows said he can only get high quality cork from portugal i believe. no one else may care but i found this pretty interesting. dr doug sells complete kits i believe. he rebuilds the t/o bearing himself and goes thru pressure plate. mr fellows sells a kit to rebuild it yourself and a new roller pilot bearing. the gasket is nec for proper spacing and needs to be applied with a special gasket shellac. 21st century hudson and dr doug both sell alignment tools. all of them advertise in wtn and some are on hudson site.

 

Man, talk about mixed information! I am keeping an eye out for a different transmission setup (dry clutch) for my 51 Hudson 308 because I've heard from several sources that the wet clutch is incredibly easy to destroy with one careless instance of "riding" the clutch at a stop light or such.
I have also heard that these transmissions aren't as rugged either with broken and twisted shafts, etc.
But here Hudsonator says he's never dumped a cork clutch. This is one of those cases where it's hard for me to tell what the wisest course of action would be for me take.

 

i am no expert on anything. all i know is what i have been told. i have heard the hudson clutch, IF MAINTAINED PROPERLY, will out last and is much smoother than most dry clutches. seeing all these different components working together, i can see how the cork clutch might get a bad rap from a bad t/o bearing or pressure plate. these are both critical to be in specs for wet clutch operation. also i have been told the early stepdown 3 speed tranny with one shifter lever is the culpret. your 51 prob has that and input shaft twist on those is pretty common. the latter 2 shifter lever style it is not a problem. again this is just what i have been told. if you haven't i would talk to some real people who have tons of experience in the hudson club. not saying your other sources are incorrect, but these guys know their stuff for sure.

 

not sure of the thread i read it on but the cork clutch was something they were not willing to give up even though costs were much higher. they wanted to keep the smoothness of the cork clutch. i asked the same question a couple of years ago on the hudson site about a dry clutch to switch to. it was pretty much the concencus to not try to reinvent the wheel. but you kow what they say several ways to skin a cat.

 

I have no doubt if properly maintained that these transmissions can be great - I mean, look at the Nascar wins alone. A Maine dirt tracking legend won many many races in his 308 powered Terraplane with the dry clutch.
This info about the latter transmission vs. the earlier model is news to me though. I want to research it, but if that's the case that kind of cinches my decision to find a more modern 5 speed to adapt my needs as I don't have either one just yet and I'm sure I can purchase a suitable dry-clutch transmission and adapt it to the 308 easier than I could even find one of the later Hudson transmissions in serviceable or road worthy condition.

Still, the information alone is amazing. Would love to see some Hudson experts weigh in to this topic as well.

Hopefully the Original Poster doesn't mind the hijacking of this thread!

 

I have been wondering that myself. I posted a question of that nature on the ClassicCars.com website and haven't heard anything yet. Stands to reason it could be done, but has that trail been blazed in the past and what were the results I wonder?

 

That's wild! Never heard of a cork clutch before, or a wet clutch in an automotive application. I love learning new things!

 

I'm on my third transmission in my 49 and am still using the same clutch disc. This last fathers day the input shaft said goodbye and snapped. The problem is the number of splines on the input shaft. Early and late (single vs. two lever) trannys have the same number of splines. Put a stick behind a good running Hornet and its easy to snap or twist the input shaft. At my fathers there is the center of a cork clutch, didnt slip but spun the center of the clutch out from getting on it from a dead stop, the clutch disc itself looked like new. To much torque and not enough splines you will find the weakest link quick. I'm was fortunate enough that my dad had an NOS input shaft and not one that has already been twisted from abuse. Still the clutch is smooth and chatter free and this is my daily for the last 16 years.

 

Wow... You guys are great with all the info,I sure apreaciate it. the last 24hrs I think I have learned more about my Hudson Trans than in the year I've owed it, I think I will flush and change the oil in it and try it,but I think I will end up rebuilding the clutch system,
I am putting this old survivor back on the road to be a reliable driver, and sounds like after sitting awhile and me driving it, the clutch will be the first thing to give some trouble, plus the flywheel is in less than stellar condition.
Think I need to find some Hudson guys that have done this and get a rebuild kit atleast to have on the shelf, for now few names were mentioned I will look them up. Or if anyone else comes to mind, shoot me a note,

Because I refuse, I say REFUSE to put a small block chevy in it...

Thanks,
MIKE

 

Even though I'm a MoPar guy, I think there's something to like about every make, including the defunct ones. I'm not down on SBCs, in the right application.

But you're RIGHT: A Chevy into a Hudson would be sacrilege!


By the way, I seem to recall that the little Jets ran a dry clutch, for what it's worth.

 

FYI, I thought SEEING one might be helpful. FlatTopBob posted this 35-41 NOS clutch five years ago.

Original-formula Hudsonite is reportedly available by emailing the HET Club
directly at [email protected].

Different HAMB Hudson guys have their own formulas for making their own Hudsonite substitute mixes.
Washington HAMBer HudsonCustom had the following to say about Hudsonite:

It was a light oil. I know some fellas used a 50/50 mix of 30 weight and kerosine in the day.

I got this off of a website at some point:

"12 ounces Ford type F automatic transmission fluid, 12 ounces power steering fluid, 12 ounces
Hudsonite, 4 ounces kerosene. Mix all components and use 6 ounces per refill in clutch. (this is
a way to extend the Hudsonite, you have on hand, and a less expensive way of refilling, when
several refills are required)"

 

I have always snapped axles when racing hudsons. I have never broke a clutch. I use neatsfoot oil and atf mixed 50/50. I have found that it works great and swells the cork the best. I can't say it's the best clutch set-up but I had no choice at the time. I can tell you this, make sure your throwout bearing is not frozen, if you can still get a leather seal for the throwout bearing those are the best but I can find them anymore. Make sure the fingers/release arms on your pressure plate are smooth and round at the ends and not diveted or squared off, check for a strong return at the pressure plate, no loose arms or broken springs, smooth surface at the face of the press. palte and flywheel, this is based on a suction theory, cork is soft and supple and you don't want gouges or a rough cut on your flywheel and pressure plate. And always make sure you have a return spring on your clutch pedal you don't want to ride your brand new to bearing on the press plate fingers while your exceeding 4000to 5000 rpm. the to bearing is just for applying and releasing and not meant to spin through the your whole trip to Paso Robles. And try not to slip the wet clutch too much just put it in first and let the engine do it's job. Hell the stroke on a 308 hornet is like 5 inches there is some torque to deal with. I could go on and on but I have to go to work now. Have fun.

 

The genuine article: A half-pint (8-ounce) can of Hudsonite.
On eBay, www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hudson-Hudsonite-
Clutch-Compound-Can-Oil-/30065236...

 

I found this item by Lewis Phelps VERY informative!

(www.phelpsclan.com/Hudson/clutch.html)


Unsticking a Stuck Clutch

As I learned with our 1929 Town Sedan, the Hudson clutch is unusual, in that it uses an oil bath rather than dry clutch plates. Hudson referred to this special oil as Hudsonite. Owners were instructed to make their own Hudsonite by mixing equal parts of light motor oil and kerosene. However, dealers also sold 6-ounce cans of Hudsonite that presumably had a somewhat more sophisticated formulation. The clutch plate itself is an aluminum disk pierced with 144 1/2-inch holes, with a piece of cork inserted in each hole. When properly maintained, the oil bath clutch functions very smoothly. However, if a Hudson is left to sit for long periods (4 decades, in the case of our car) the oil dries and literally glues the clutch plate to the flywheel. Some Hudson owners have reported success in unsticking their clutch by replacing the clutch oil with kerosene and soaking the clutch for several days, then stressing the "glued" surface by towing the car or other means. A Hudson Service Bulletin recommends a mixture of three parts kerosene and one part acetone, which might be more effective than just kerosene. Having tried the kerosene soak without success, my advice is this: if your clutch is frozen, take it apart and fix it properly, and replace the pilot bearing while you're at it.


Some Hudson owners also have successfully experimented with the use of modern Type F Automatic Transmission Fluid, which is better able to stand up to heat generated by frequent starts and stops than the original "Hudsonite" fluid.


Hudson provides detailed instructions for servicing the clutch, which I repeat here (with comments in italics) for anyone who doesn't have access to a Hudson Repair Manual. These instructions are for Super Six cars with serial number 750,001 and higher.

1. Remove front compartment rubber and felt mats and take out front toe and floor boards. <CITE>This requires disconnecting the accelerator connecting rod, which runs along the underside of the floorboard, on both sides. The left-side connector goes to the hand throttle mechanism, and the right side to the carburetor.</CITE>
2. Remove clevis pin from brake pedal and disconnect brake pedal to equalizer bar pull rod.
3. Remove clevis pin from lower end of starter pedal shaft lever. Disconnect starter operating shaft and spring.
4. Remove clevis pin from clutch adjustable link and disconnect throwout yoke.
5. Unscrew sleeve at rear end of speedometer shaft and disconnect shaft from transmission.
6. Remove bolts from universal joint flange and disconnect propeller shaft. <CITE>In today's parlance, this is the drive shaft. I had to disconnect it at the rear end as well to obtain enough clearance to remove the transmission.</CITE>
7. Remove bolts holding pedal control bracket to transmission case and take off pedal control assembly.
8. Remove cap screws holding hand control lever assembly and transmission cover to transmission and disconnect control assembly. <CITE>It isn't in the maintenance instructions, but it is a very good idea to drain the oil out of the transmission at this point, either using the transmission drain plug or by siphoning or pumping from the top of the now-open transmission. </CITE>
9. Remove clutch drain plug from flywheel and drain oil out of clutch. <CITE>The clutch drain plug requires a 7/16-inch square drive wrench. I made one by grinding down an extra shaft from a half-inch socket drive.</CITE>
10. Remove cotter pins and nuts from 3 bolts, take out bolts and 2 cap screws holding transmission case to crankcase, taking out upper bolt last. This will permit the the transmission to be withdrawn from the clutch assembly and lowered to the floor. <CITE>This is heavy! Use a floor jack to support it, and/or heavy straps with two strong people holding the ends.</CITE>

All this is necessary to gain access to the clutch. Now all you have to do is remove the cap screws holding the clutch cover in place, exposing the glued-on clutch plate. Gently pry the clutch plate loose. If you're lucky you won't lose any or many of the corks. Thoroughly clean the clutch plate, flywheel and presure plate surfaces with steel wool and WD-40 or Liquid Wrench.
Reassembly is simply the above steps in reverse order, with the following notable details:

1. While you have the clutch disassembled, replace the clutch pilot bearing. NAPA Auto Parts dealers carry an exact replacement part, listed as NAPA part number 6204-J. If the clutch is frozen, the bearing probably is, too. (Ours was.)
2. Getting the alignment right as you reassemble the clutch is tricky; exact alignment of parts is necessary. Paul O'Neil loaned me a nice alignment tool he had fabricated. If you email him, I expect he'd do the same for you.
3. I had trouble getting the transmission back in place. It turned out that the starter control shaft had rotated 180 degrees, and a grease fitting had gotten in the way. Rotating the shaft fixed the problem. Again, two people will make the job a lot easier getting the heavy transmission back in place.
4. If you slightly damaged the clutch gasket during disassembly, one of the gasket dressing compounds (or "instant gasket") on the market will keep a tight seal.
5. Ditto for the gasket that seals the joint between the transmission and transmission cover.
6. When you replace the transmission hand control lever assembly, it's not easy to properly mate the two "forks" on the shift assembly with the gear mechanism. To get it right, the "forks" must be positioned to line up with two pulley-like sections on the gear shafts. This sounds confusing, but it will be obvious when you inspect the transmission mechanism carefully.
7. Be sure to replace the transmission oil and clutch oil before you start the car. The clutch is bathed in 1-1/2 cups of "Hudsonite Oil," which is a mixture of 3/4 cup of kerosene and 3/4 cup of motor oil. Or, as discussed above, use modern Automatic Transmission Fluid Type F. (If you put in too much Hudsonite or ATF, the clutch can slip. This should be renewed every 2,500 miles.) The transmission requires 1-1/2 quarts of light transmission oil.

Removing the transmission and renewing the clutch has been the most difficult job I've undertaken on the Hudson, mostly because you're dealing with heavy parts in a position that's somewhat awkward. But having a smooth-functioning clutch makes it worthwhile.


If your clutch needs help beyond your own resources, professional assistance is available. One company that advertises a specialization in Hudson clutch repair is Wildrick Restoration of Indianapolis, IN. The company offers general old-car restoration, plus a wide range of specific Hudson clutch restoration services. They also offer a clutch aligning tool for $5.