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THICKSTUN HEADS, cast iron and aluminum

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by FlatheadRoadster, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. Django
    Joined: Nov 15, 2002
    Posts: 10,198

    Django
    Member
    from Chicago

    I'd love to find TRJ 8 for that article, but I'm sure since it's an early one, it will be sky high.
     
  2. sodbuster
    Joined: Oct 15, 2001
    Posts: 5,040

    sodbuster
    Member
    from Kansas

    To the person with the second set of cast iron heads....Congrats & I have been to Speedy Bills place & I'm pretty sure that he doesn't have a set. I have mine hidden/buried & I will try to get them out this weekend for a couple of shots of them.

    Chris




    Sent from my iPhone using TJJ.
     
  3. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Chris: Thank you for the info! Right now we got the only two set known!
    I would be glad if you can send me pics to show here on this thread.

    There is a different in our heads. Your heads looks like it has the Los Angeles logo, mine doesnt.
    Maybe my set is the first he made, and then change his mind about having the Los Angeles logo. Made yours and them cast the rest in aluminum?? who knows!?
     
  4. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    More info about the thickstun cast iron heads??? Anyone?
     
  5. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Front and backside of thickstun heads. I messure the the heads today, it look like the aluminum heads are 1mm deeper then the cast iron, might be better compression with the cast iron!?
    Maybe I should put them on my roadsters engine and test them.
     

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  6. J. Fitzhugh
    Joined: Nov 7, 2004
    Posts: 296

    J. Fitzhugh
    Member

    Flathead Roadster,

    I sent you a PM. I have been out of the country and have not been able to join this discussion until now. Yours and Sodbuster are the only two sets of cast iron Thickstun heads that I am aware. I have photos of Thickstun alluminum heads with fins, and have been made aware of a set of similar Tattersfield heads in Bronze. My guess is less than 10 sets where ever made.

    Remember that Kogel tried cast iron heads and they almost allways cracked.

    I have always had water problems with the Thickstun heads and I ran a set on my 40 coupe for years. The lower water holes are almost inside the cylinders if you overbore, especially when you use large bore gaskets. I was lucky to find a set of gaskets for a 3 5/16 bore, as they are almost all 3 3/8.

    Jay
     
  7. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Jay
    Do you have pics of the thickstun heads with fins? Do you want to show them here on this thread?? Also nice if you have pics of the tattersfield heads in bronze. I saw them when they where for sale on ebay, to bad I didnt have the money then..

    I run my aluminum heads a few yeas ago but I blew a gasket so I used the original heads instead. I will try my cast iron thickstun heads for next season.

    /Martin
     
  8. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Sodbuster: Chris , what happend?? did you forgot to take pics of your cast iron heads?? please do I wanna see your back and front!

    We need to dig for more info about these parts!
     
  9. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,775

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    The moulds for the aluminum and cast iron heads would be be different. The Kogel Rocket heads were finned but the Thickstun ones are not. The finning might have been the cause of the cracking prob lem with Kogels along with the fact that all I have seen were chrome-plated whereas Thickstun stuff was painted a deep rich red color.
    It is hard to imagine any foundry making a run of only 2-3 or even less than 10 PAIRS of heads even in those days unless there was an inside connection at the foundry.
    Think if we could do that now!
     
  10. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Unless these cast iron heads is a precast for the aluminum heads. I Dont think they made diffrent patterns for either aluminum or iron. Tattersfield made aluminum heads and have made 1 set of known heads in brass. they are displayed at speedway Bills museeum.

    If more then 2-3 sets are known today, where the hell are all the rest if they made so many more? Noone else has seen or heard anything more then these pairs.

    I hope some else out there has some more info to share with us!

    The Thickstun , Tattersfield , Lightning and some Eddie Mayer heads are all based of the same pattern as the thickstun heads.
    Tattersfield took over the patterns when Thickstun died in 1946 and changed them to look like his own. Added finns and changed combusion chambers.
    Lightening heads , I dont know much about them. I would chop of my left arm to get a set!
    Eddie mayer heads I cant find pics right now, but a friend of mine has a set. Ill get pics.

    They are all made to use the original lower headbolts in engine block.
    All 4 flathead speed equipment producers where all from Los Angeles/hollywood.
     

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  11. pasadenahotrod
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 11,775

    pasadenahotrod
    Member
    from Texas

    As far as scarcity goes, who looked for rusty iron in a pile of old heads, then or now? Nobody, that's who. So even if a run of several dozens or 50 pairs was made and were workers when they were removed for whatever reason and laid in a stack under a bench there is really nothing to distinguish them from any other head but the bosses for the covers and the smallish name logo.

    The shrinkage is different for cast iron and aluminum so the patterns are different sizes even if the parts end up being the same size.
     
  12. Nobey
    Joined: May 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,489

    Nobey
    Member

    Flat Head Roadster,
    If You can find a copy of the Premier Issue of Hop Up, dated winter 1994.
    It has a great story written by Jay G Fitzhugh, on the legacy of Tommy
    Thickstun. I posted a picture of My Thickstun Merc on [ Flatheads....... Lets
    see'em! ] page 8 , Good luck with Your search. Rich.
     
  13. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Hi Rich!

    thanks I do have the premiere issue of hop up , there is even a bigger story in Rodders Journal. Ill check that out on page 8!
     
  14. What an interesting thread, I want more :D
     
  15. J. Fitzhugh
    Joined: Nov 7, 2004
    Posts: 296

    J. Fitzhugh
    Member

    FR,

    More trivia. The Lightening Heads and Intakes were made by Warren Boardman. I was shown a series of photos of his castings by the late Dick Martin, when I was doing the Thickstun story for Rodders Journal 7 in 1996/97. I went to Oregon and met with Jack Radke (Thickstun's original pre-war friend and partner), Andy Thickstun (Tom Thickstun's nephew) and Martin.

    There is also a set of recast Thickstun heads with the name Hot Rod shown in an early Almquist catalog. While I have never actually seen a set, these heads had fins, and still had the boss to hold down the head covers.

    Also, Louie Senter at one time had access to the head cover patterns, as I have been told (but never shown) that at least a few sets with the ANSEN name were cast. I have been told that a magazine article in the 1960s had a photo of the ANSEN cast head covers, but I have never come across it, and I have a pretty good collection of magazines from this era. Bob Tattersfield, Lou Baney, Louie Senter, Bob Morton and Frank Baron all seemed to hang out together. Senter was part owner in ANSEN.

    I do know that the elusive Thickstun/Radke supercharger prototype at one time after Thickstun's death in 1946 was under the work bench at ANSEN. From there it vanishes. I still have the blueprints given to me by Jack Radke.
     
  16. sodbuster
    Joined: Oct 15, 2001
    Posts: 5,040

    sodbuster
    Member
    from Kansas

    I will get you pictures on Monday. Sorry, I forgot about this thread & having a 2 1/2 year old boy....my HAMB time has been limited.

    Chris




    Sent from my iPhone using TJJ.
     
  17. sodbuster
    Joined: Oct 15, 2001
    Posts: 5,040

    sodbuster
    Member
    from Kansas

  18. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Chris: no pics try again!!
     
  19. sodbuster
    Joined: Oct 15, 2001
    Posts: 5,040

    sodbuster
    Member
    from Kansas

    1?


    Sent from my iPhone using TJJ.
     

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  20. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Sweet!!
    Do you have pics of back side as well??
     
  21. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Whats the thing on the first pic of the upper head where the hose are still attatched? betwen the left to sparkplugs??
     
  22. sodbuster
    Joined: Oct 15, 2001
    Posts: 5,040

    sodbuster
    Member
    from Kansas

    2?


    Sent from my iPhone using TJJ.
     

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  23. sodbuster
    Joined: Oct 15, 2001
    Posts: 5,040

    sodbuster
    Member
    from Kansas

    This vesion1.2?


    Sent from my iPhone using TJJ.
     

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  24. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Time to get this thread back to the top.

    Any one with some more info about these heads??
     
  25. J. Fitzhugh
    Joined: Nov 7, 2004
    Posts: 296

    J. Fitzhugh
    Member

    The one differnce I see is that the steel heads do not have the larger 18mm plugs.
     
  26. FlatheadRoadster
    Joined: Aug 19, 2008
    Posts: 47

    FlatheadRoadster
    Member
    from Sweden

    Mine does have 18mm plugg holes!
     
  27. sodbuster
    Joined: Oct 15, 2001
    Posts: 5,040

    sodbuster
    Member
    from Kansas

  28. ghornbostel
    Joined: Jan 3, 2012
    Posts: 133

    ghornbostel
    Member

    If the same patterns were used to cast the iron and aluminum heads then the aluminum castings would be shorter than the iron castings (aluminum shrinks more than iron on solidification). Probably the measuring point would be over the combustion chamber at the valve area if they haven't been ground or modified. The head bolt pattern can be laid out from the middle of the casting to cut the difference in half but the cast in features always retain the original pattern shrinkage factor for the metal to be used. All this would determine is if there were separate patterns for the aluminum and iron heads or if he cast the iron heads off the same patterns.

    regards
    Greg Hornbostel
     
  29. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,633

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    And nobody will sell me a set! :)
     
  30. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,405

    alchemy
    Member

    I don't think they used the same patterns. Look at the side-by-side comparison in the very first post. There are a couple obvious differences. 1. the knobs in the upper corners are missing from the iron heads. 2. there is more flat space between the water neck and the stud hole right below it on the alum head, and they put the words "Los Angeles" in there. 3. the bottom corners look slightly different (this may just be an illusion from the dark color and shadows)
     

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