i am brand new to this so please bear with me. online i keep seeing titles for sale. what exactly are you supposed to do with these? lie and say that it is for the car you just built that doesnt have one ? i dont understand. please enlighten me. thank you bill <!-- / message -->
no one comes out and says it because it's against the law. most call them "historical documents" for this reason. but , you're correct.....lie
Check out their website, http://www.broadwaytitle.com/ if you do a search on here you'll hear a lot of guy/gals have used these services, although now there has been a crack down in different states, that won't allow them anymore.
thanks fellas. i already know the correct procedure for titling/registering my build here in colo. i think i'll do it legal like..... <!-- / message --><!-- controls -->
When you have a car with a lot of bucks into it and don't have a title, these guys can help. Before you start working on a car you should get the title situation squared away, not after sinking a lot of time and money into it.
Paul, You are sooooo right! I had a real bad time at the Indiana DMV because I waited till the car was done. Normal Norman
I was planning on getting a "historical document" for my 63, but after alot of rigamaroll, I finally got my truck titled for the first time since it was bought new. It was a GA truck and I guess titles weren't a requirement there
it sucks but u do what u have to... we put a lot of time and money into this old tin just to let some bi--- at the titleoffice to say well it hasent been reg, no tax paid yada yada..... hey it is all a money thing.....
update titling and getting a VIN was a breeze. i walked in with reciepts for every bolt on that car and a wieght certificate. it took about 20 minutes (minus the waiting in line) $125 later i had a title and a VIN plate attached to my frame.
In the perfect world every old car we find would come with the original title in the sellers name and all we would have to do is treat it like any other car we buy and head on down to the DMV or tax office and get it put in our name. Unfortunately, in the REAL world it sometimes doesn't work that way. A lot of the old tin we play with was sitting in some field for the past 50 years, or put together from 4 or 5 different cars, so there is no title to be found anywhere. You can do it via the route of saving all your receipts and attempting to title your car as "Constructed from parts" or "Kit car" or whatever your State calls it, but sometimes that is not so easy. Some States want to now treat your car as a 2012 and have some of the emissions and safety equipment a new car would have. Other States might want to assign you a special license plate that limits how and when you can use the car. At the very best, other States treat the car as the year your engine was made, which also can be tough because of emissions equipment. As for the "Historical Documents" being sold at swap meets and on line, the Dudley Do-rights of the hot rod world will say "NEVER do it this way because you are breaking the law. While that may be absolutely correct if we are honest I bet a good percentage of the old cars running around on the roads got that way via a title someone bought and their project became that car. Those are just the facts of life, like it or not. If you are lucky enough to live in one of the States that have a simple procedure for titling your project, by all means go that route. But some people live in States that make it damn near impossible to get an old car properly licensed and as the man said, you have to do what you have to do. That may not be the politically correct answer, but it is the honest one. Don
Can not disagree with what you say, but the following disclamer should be also included: In the event the numbers stamped on your frame are determined to be fake (will not argue the probability), the consequences may be less than desirable. Sometimes doing things the hard way work out the best in the long term . . .
One of the things law enforcement is taught to do is look for fraudulent vin numbers. The class is given by the NTSB. Also, there's a thread about insurance on here. In the event of a claim, they will look at the vin numbers and paperwork. They will note if it is the correct font and the rivets are legit. If not, the will not pay the claim........Just food for thought.
The truth is that it is against federal law to peddle a title for anything other than to look at as a piece of automobilia. That said I ran into a retired state police officer at a swap meet last year who had a title for one of everything some complete with VIN tags. I mentioned to him that he should maybe call them collector pieces and he told me his story. Then he said that for all intents and purposes they were sold to be looked at but he had no control over what was done with them after they were purchased, with the requisite wink and nod. There are actually people that collect old titles and frame them for folks to look at or even use them in their dioramas at car shows. I have seen them, but I think that a lot of them get used as titles for peoples piece together hot rods. Many states make it a nightmare to title an old car that was pieced together or rescued from the crusher or rusting in peace in some field or ditch. It is a shame because if they made it something that could actually be done or made it simple enough to understand that you didn't have to pass the bar to understand it more people would go the legal route. I tried the salvage or builders title on a Harley once in Missouri. The state ran the serial number and could not find that the bike had ever been registered anywhere. So they would not issue a title because if it had not been titled anywhere that they could find (pre-internet) they could not title it as salvage or home built. So I found a loophole that I could apply for an original title as long as I could come up with a believable reason/proof as to why it hadn't been titled. I knew an old dirt tracker/hill climber. he wrote me a note saying that he was the original owner and it had never been titled because it was an dirt tracker. Got it notarized and I sent that in along with pictures of the same bike again with knobby tires on it and the proper forms. They wrote me an original title as in I was the first owner original title. So I was the first owner of a one owner 61" (80" in reality) Harley that was manufactured 5 years before I was born. The title was issued in the '70s when I would have been in my twenties. It was totally legal, but it should not have been and had they issued me a salvage or builder title it would have been more correct. It falls back on the states and their lame laws and by-laws in regards to motor vehicles. If they made titles and or registration more accessible to the common man the there would be less finagling. OK off the soap box, NEXT!!! I think they would like you to believe that. Maybe in Calif these days the state police have a class in that but it is real common for a police officer to not even know where the numbersare let alone if they are the correct font and rivets. There are common locations and common fonts on commonly stolen vehicle that some of them may know but the average police officer will not know every situation on every vehicle. There is just too much for them to learn. I actually was going to have the numbers run on my '61 Willys but I have not yet put the vin tag back on it. When I got it someone had been trying to make a show truck out of it and removed the tag to smooth something out and paint. I do not know the correct position for it and have asked on several boards including the HAMB and got several different answers. So I know a state police officer that does state vin inspections. His answer was put it on the dash on the drivers side so it can be read through the windshield
What I've seen are guys that start building a car, with no paper work to begin with. When they are almost done and panic sets in, then they start checking into what you have to do to get a title. If you don't have a title, don't do anything to the car until you have started on the paperwork, whatever way that is.
I believe GassersGarage was referring to private insurance companies, not the police. Insurance adjusters would LOVE to not have to pay on a claim...
Amazing, mine only too 7 months from the day I sent in the paperwork and check. Plus the appraisal and bonding $$$$.
wait a minute, What did you get a title for? If you got a title for a home built car and you have a real car you just got screwed. For most people using title services or historical documents it's just a case of taking the path of least resistance. There are many ways to get to enjoy these cars but the red tape getting there on an old cast off "piece of junk" can be a pain in the ass.
Just curious, but has anyone EVER been caught with a car titled from a "historical document"? I'll bet the average cop has no idea where to look on a car that's pre-war.
I know of a "newer" vehicle that was titled/driven/lost that way. And not all LEO that look at your car are "average cops". You buy you're ticket, you take your chances. Just don't whine and cry if you lose one titled this way. Larry T (who used to have a Texas DOT theft officer stop and check all the bikes in the shop every couple of months or so. No he never found anything out of order.)
how did i get screwed? it IS a 2012 homebuilt car. we dont have emissions testing here so that isnt an issue.
i went to a meeting with the state cops that was hosted by the roadrunners c.c. and had a bunch of NHRA there. the subject was titling rods. the cop that was the main speaker said more than once. before you even start a build. take the frame to the cops and run the numbers. since mine was a homade frame it wasnt an issue.
Probably not an issue that comes up much and I'm sure it depends on the state, but how much of a car has to be there and used for it's title to be legal?
I'll go with that. It makes more sense. It always amazes me when an officer is not more knowledgable than they are about motor vehicles. But like I said too much to learn. One should try real hard not to get caught doing anything with a purchased historical document other than using it for such. Like mentioned earlier it is against federal law. There is a good chance that someone in using one to title a vehicle could end up having a blanket party at the Gray Rock Hotel in Leavenworth, Kansas. I suppose one of us could give a tutorial about how not to get caught using a historical document for a title on a car but that would be counterproductive considering that we are trying to avoid doing that at all costs. One should always try and find a legitimate way to register a car.
This is what is stopping me from putting a Deuce frame under my Model A. If I get a new deuce frame do I stamp the model A numbers on it (using the correct number stamps)? If I do that a knowledgeable LEO would say the frame is a '32 and not a '29 so how does it have 1929 numbers? Do I have to re-reg it as a 32? Then I'd have to get a 32 title. I definitely would not want to register/title it as a 2012 special construction as I think I'd lose a ton of value in the car.
I think if anything this threat pointed out the biggest problem, every State has different rules and interpretations of what an old car should be classified as. Some of you can walk in with receipts and walk out with a title, others live in States that make you walk on fire for months and months and then you aren't sure if you can get one. As for the bike shop getting checked for vins, that is really common everywhere. At Daytona Bike Week the cops go down the lines of bikes checking vin numbers and find a bunch of bikes every year that are stolen or otherwise not correct. But that stems from the large number of bikes that are canabalized for parts after being stolen and the fact that almost all bike frames have a number stamped in them somewhere. Lots of our hot rod frames are either homemade , originally never had numbers stamped into them, or are impossible to read due to rust. Don
In Texas I think it will mean that it has to be drivable and pass a safety inspection. Maybe just pass the safety inspection. I would work at getting it titled and registered as bare bones as I could. It's easier to convince the tax people that the value is a lot lower when it is in five shade of primer with no interior except a pair of old seats rather than after it is painted and has a new interior in it plus all the trinkets on the engine and a high dollar set of wheels and tires. I don't mean unsafe, just up in the first running driving condition before you blow it apart to finish it. I've said it before several times but I keep a build book on every project that is going to need a title. Every receipt, bill of sale and photos to document what the piece looked like when I bought it go into that book. It's just a Wallmart 1.98 three ring binder with a batch of page savers in it. That solves the "where did the major body, frame or engine part come from deal. It also helps with the argument with the tax people when they try to help put a high dollar price tag on the rig.
You have got no idea how much trouble that caused me in getting an Ohio title for my vicky that I bought from Connecticut. I needed a lawyer.
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