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Questions re 1954 olds slant pan hydro.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by hotrod bob, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. hotrod bob
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
    Posts: 17

    hotrod bob
    Member

    (1)...My 1954 Olds Hydro won't go into reverse with the engine running. Could this be the parking pall not getting enough fluid pressure to release? All four forward gears are fine but I have to turn the engine off to gain reverse which then works fine.

    (2)...I do not have a dipstick that is correct yet. does anyone know the correct length of dipstick or fluid level in pan? I seem to recall the fluid level being just below the pan gasket surface on my C&0 Hydro back when.

    It has been a lot of years since I have had a Hydro and cannot wait to get this thing going.... Not sure if this Trans has been built up by anyone. I bought it connected to a 1960 394 a few years ago and both look to have very few miles. 1952 Studebaker starlight coupe with 394 Olds, 1954 slant pan Hydro, straight axle.
    Thank you in advance for any info!

    If it's too loud, your too old!! :cool:
     
  2. hotrod bob
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
    Posts: 17

    hotrod bob
    Member

  3. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    I have a 56 base model 88 trans here, and it's out on the floor in storage. It is a slant pan hydro, not a jetaway.

    I can measure the dipstick total, from where it seats up top to the tip.

    I also have a 53-up Motors manual to look for troubleshooting the hydramatic.

    Can do this in the AM, and will get back to this thread.
     
  4. Bobert
    Joined: Feb 21, 2005
    Posts: 820

    Bobert
    Member Emeritus

    Out of the shop manual for a single coupling (1950) hydramatic, not the same but similar.
    Transmission will not reverse when shifting into reverse: (Assumes the lever moves to reverse I guess)
    Broken reverse detent lever
    Broken reverse crankshaft (??)
    Broken reverse anchor

    Difficult to shift out of reverse:
    High engine idle speed
    Interference between reverse anchor and bracket on the case
    Improper backlash between reverse anchor and internal gear
    Linkage binding

    Fluid level makes sense to me too.
    If none of this applies at least it gets back to the top.
     

  5. I have a 55 Hydro Service Manual at home, but I won't be able to check until next week. If you don't have an answer by then, PM me (cause I'll forget) and I'll check out what it says.
     
  6. hotrod bob
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
    Posts: 17

    hotrod bob
    Member

    Thank you all. I'll check for linkage binding first since that's the easiest fix. I made my own gate shifter and box and it seems to work well. The lever won't go into reverse position with engine running but does when turned off. This hydro is full manual shifting...6 detents...P/R, 1, 2, 3, 4, N....drives in whatever gear is selected and stays there. I will look forward to the dipstick measurement on the slantpan so I can compare to mine accordingly. :)
     
  7. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    Bob, I looked at the stick and the book;

    under troubleshooting:
    - Selector Lever Won't Go Into Reverse:
    1- Gov valves sticking
    2-Broken Gov oil seal rings
    3-Reverse blocker piston stuck open



    I looked at the removed stick and tube.

    The stick actually measures oil level in the tube, as it does not stick out of the end of the tube.

    There is a sharp bend in the tube as it enters the side of the pan. Just trying to hold things aligned... it looks like the oil full mark should be somewhere about 1/3 or 1/2 the way up from the top of that threaded hole, to the pan gasket flange.

    Half way up seems like it would be over full IMO. So, it is no where near the top of the pan like you were guessing.

    Sorry but I forgot to see "when" the oil gets checked or in what gear...running or not. I can look it up tonight.
     
  8. Are you sure it's the original hydro? I seem to remember that pre-56, there was no neutral. Just R, 1, 2, 3, 4. But maybe I'm mis-remembering... :rolleyes:
     
  9. hotrod bob
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
    Posts: 17

    hotrod bob
    Member

    Thank you F&J. The dipstick tube is like that on mine...sharp bend and all. I will mark my dipstick accordingly. Thanks for the troubleshooting info too. I have loaned out my old Motors manual and cannot remember to who...looked at the linkage..all is good. Guess I'll have to check the gov valves and reverse blocker piston next. :)
     
  10. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    I went at the book again. The text I gave you was for dual coupling, and I now see that they say yours is a single coupling//

    So here are those corrected steps:

    "Can't move selector to rverse"
    1- if it moves with engine off, check gov for sticking gov G-1 plunger., or worn rings or lands, or worn gov oil delivery sleeve.

    2- If lever will not move off or running;
    -check for stuck reverse blocker piston, or binding rev crank, or park brake bracket.


    Oil checked warm in N, overfill causes foaming they said, so if you see foam on the stick....
     
  11. hotrod bob
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
    Posts: 17

    hotrod bob
    Member

    It is #1...gonna chk the gov. Oil is not foaming...thank you! Gonna get my Motors manual back tomorrow...Chilton books cannot compare! remembered who has it! haha!
     
  12. hotrod bob
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
    Posts: 17

    hotrod bob
    Member

    Took the side cover off and found what I was hoping for....B&M valve on gov delivery pipe...Yay! I wonder if anyone knows...I have 6 detents on the internal control lever, the Motors manual shows 4. This must also be a B&M part to hold in whichever gear is selected and works in conjunction with the B&M valve? Any info is appreciated, TIA. :)
     
  13. Dave Downs
    Joined: Oct 25, 2005
    Posts: 935

    Dave Downs
    Member
    from S.E. Penna

    ...I remember N, D, S, L, R (S was 'Super', 1-2-3; L was 1-2, R had the 'parking pawl')....but I'm old too..:p...and you had to have a Neutral - how ya gonna start it?
     
  14. hotrod bob
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
    Posts: 17

    hotrod bob
    Member

    Having only owned 2 Hydros, One being built by C&O and this one from B&M, both had individual detents for all gears....P/R, 1,2,3,4,N...not factory stock of course. You are correct Dave from what I've read in stock form....but I'm gettin' old too :)
     
  15. I sell a copy of the Hi-Rank book showing how to modify the Hydro for street or strip. It shows both methods for modifying the valve body, B & M and theirs. It can also be used for rebuilding the Hydro.
    I also own pieces and parts of a B & M Hydro I bought back in 1962. I actually built 5 or 6 racing Hydros back then using the Hi-Rank method.
     
  16. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,285

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Sounds like the reverse blocker piston is not working correctly. These transmissions provided the reverse blocker piston to not allow reverse engagement above 10-20mph. Obviously the G-1 port of the governor was used to sense the actual speed of the car, so either or both the governor/reverse blocker piston is defective.

    The stock transmission has a quadrant: N for neutral, DR for drive 1-4, S for super drive 1-3, Lo for 1-2, and R for reverse or Park when engine is off.

    Your transmission sounds like a B&M Hydro stick.
     
  17. It could be a genuine B & M or a pseudo B & M.
    On my B & M, they had removed the aluminum OEM nameplate and replaced it with a oval sticker. It has the B & M name on it and the numbers 2-55 and 1753 which would be the S/N. It looks like it was a 1954, 55 or 56 Olds slant pan Hydro. The extension housing on it was not a 55 or 56 Olds one thou, it was possibly the 1954 extension housing (rear seals are totally different between the 1954 and the 1955/56 ones). It had the valve you were talking about and extra detents on the rooster comb also.
     
  18. hotrod bob
    Joined: Dec 16, 2007
    Posts: 17

    hotrod bob
    Member

    I put new Governor rings in (1 was broken just at the tip) and a new parking pall bolt (was broken at the threads but still had the pivot point intact. Works like a Champ now, Yippee!! Mine has the steel nameplate...no sticker but looks like there may have been a sticker over it at one time. Either way it has B&M parts in it...Bitchin'!! I'm Stoked!! Thanks to all for Info! Loved my old C&O Hydro and it lasted quite a while considering turning 7200 rpm behind my 375hp Vette motor.
     
  19. magooz
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 100

    magooz
    Member

    HELP,
    We're looking for a Olds Slant Pan Hydro Dipstick & Tube... Anybody?
    Thanks Ken [email protected]
     

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