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Projects Wild 577" Blown Injected AWB Tempest Funny Car build...for the street!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by applekrate, Dec 30, 2011.

  1. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I was day dreaming about an altered X-frame GM with an Arias hemi, or even a bone stock tall truck 427 with a blower, but I didn't come close to this in my wildest fantasy!
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  2. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 3,911

    RodStRace
    Member

    Steve, beautiful stuff! Can't wait to see more of this build.
     
  3. 60man
    Joined: Jan 1, 2007
    Posts: 148

    60man
    Member

    Hello Steve.....I admire your dedication to the Poncho's....naturally!;)
    That is going to be one bitching ride...Man....you have some neat toys !!
    If I ever make to Arizona I'll be sure to stop in..
    Nice meeting you at Norwalk...only wished you could have brought the Digger..
     
  4. Saxxon
    Joined: Dec 14, 2008
    Posts: 1,831

    Saxxon
    Member

    Now you GOTTA put the Hemi heads on the 577 for the Tempest... you jus Gotta !!

    Then again, care to donate a Pontiac Hemi headed 577 for my Scout... I'll feed it and water it and everything !!
     
  5. KWashburn
    Joined: Jul 23, 2006
    Posts: 109

    KWashburn
    Member

    Subscribed. Awesome work.
     

  6. Since you brought up the HEMI stuff, I would like to mention that I do have a HEMI Pontiac thread here on the Hamb for those who are interested. I can still answer questions about the HEMI stuff here, but, am somewhat trying to keep this thread pertaining to the Tempest. Problem is, and it is a good problem, a lot of these projects overlap each other and are tied together for various reasons.

    Here is a link to the HEMI thread for those interested- http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316668

    Currently, I own 7 M/T HEMI Pontiac heads. 2 of which are on a complete, running Pontiac HEMI engine. here is a pic of 6 of them together.

    [​IMG]

    Currently, one of the leading manufactures of valve train parts has my 7th head. Am having a modern shaft rocker set up made to fit these heads for use on my AA/Fueler. That is why all 7 are not pictured together.
    That leaves 5 more. Of the 5, 4 are allocated to my AA/Fuel Dragster. With a nitro car, you need to have a spare set of heads.
    That leaves 1 for a spare or a 4cyl project unless I locate another casting.
    As you can probably tell, I am in this for the long run and hope to be tinkering for many more decades, Lord willing of course.
    I can see down the road, after I have my Pontiac digger in the 5s with the M/T HEMI heads, that I may have some billet versions made or make them myself. Should that happen, then there would be 4 availble heads and I could put a pair on this Tempest. This is assuming I do not destroy some of them in my attempt to go well in the 5's. I am willing to hurt some parts to reach my goals, it is just a fact of life.

    The Tempest is already getting, hand me down, parts from the Fueler so, it may get HEMI Heads too.

    Here is a mock up of the tall deck 577" with M/T HEMI heads and 14-71 blower sitting in the chassis of my AA/Fueler. At one time, this engine was planned for the digger but, now will go in the Tempest. The AA/Fueler does not need 577" to run in the 5's. It should be able to run 5's with less than 400 inches.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a mock up pic showing the 6 bolt main side rails. One side has a Wenzler Super Chief head that I high ported, the other side is a M/T HEMI

    [​IMG]

    Here is a pic showing the side of my 389 for my AA/Fueler about 10 years ago. Some things have changed, esp the fuel system but, you can see and get an idea of what the 6 bolt lower end looks like from the outside on an assembled engine. Many parts on this engine I either custom made, or had them made to my specs. You can see the nice, clean competition supercharger drive I built. None were available for Pontiacs prior to. Same with the cam driven fuel pump, snout support, blower drive hub, etc, etc. The intake is an early 60s M/T that was modified with a burst panel, retro opening, o ringed and set up for port nozzels- all for nitro use.

    [​IMG]

    The heads may look unique because they are. I always liked the idea of high porting the exhaust side on Pontiac heads and have played with the idea on and off since the mid 80s.
    I modified 2 set of these castings to use on my Fueler. The entire lower ros of head studs are short. M/T played with this idea in the early 60s, it became VERY popular in Pro strock engines of many brands until NHRA no longer allowed it. Pat Donovan also did this in the 80s, and myself. Buick did it with their Stage 2 heads that are now being reproduced. With the switch to HEMI Heads for the AA/Fueler getting closer, it is likely that these high ported heads will go on the Tempest. Again, 'hand me down' parts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2012
  7. hellerods
    Joined: Jul 25, 2008
    Posts: 165

    hellerods
    Member

    Hey Steve-- the only trace of a Pontiac engine in the last picture is the valve cover, do you plan on using the old Poncho valve covers?
     

  8. Yes, of course the engine block is out of a '59 Star chief 2bbl.
    Have always been a fan of stock valve covers. For many, that is the first thing they change, for me, it is the last. I like both the early, pre '67 styles like the ones here and the newer '67 up styles too. All my Pontiac engines using wedge heads have always used stock valve covers and always will.
    Now, when you are running a blown nitro engine like this one, it is not smart, or legal, to do so. Large amounts of crankcase pressure can blow a stock, tin valve cover to the moon resulting in oil and probably wrecking the car.
    Here is what I did to improve safety and sanity and still be able to use stock valve covers. Again, much more thought into doing this.
    The oil breathers/fillers are filled solid with silicone and welded to the valve cover from the inside. In other words, they are cosmetic only. Also note the special valve cover retainers I designed and had made. They clamp the valve cover down all around the cover providing a very tight and complete seal. If you look close, you can also see the valve cover spacers too. These are also of my design that I had made. I machined a grove in both sides of them and they use orings- no gaskets. They have held up quite well and do the job. The Tempest engine will be done the same way.
    these valve covers are used and I got them out of my junkyard complete with small dents. It is quite a contrast from the rest of the engine and I want it that way.
    Hope this answers your question.
     
  9. Mat Thrasher
    Joined: Nov 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,168

    Mat Thrasher
    Member

    Unbelievable craftsmanship and details, I love it!
     
  10. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I see round rods extending forward from each side of the girdle to what looks like a support in the very front of the crank hub.
    Is this an accessory drive, or a support for the crank hub perhaps?
    Thanx; Tom S.
     

  11. Tom, yes it is the first ever snout support for a Pontiac. The 577" with the larger 14-71 blower, has a stronger unit that the one shown in the pic with the 6-71. There is another bearing supporting the front of the crank and blower drive.
     
  12. Here are some more pics if cutting and modifying the body. This rear floor section was removed...

    [​IMG]

    ...then this section will be moved forward to mate with the floor in front of it. If you see the cut out plate sitting on the floor in this pic, it is a header flange made for my Pontiac HEMI heads. Do not remember why it was there, probably using it as a straight edge.

    [​IMG]

    This is the area with the wheel houses cut out. Once this floor was moved forward, the quarter windows are no longer operatable.

    [​IMG]

    Peeking in through the outside left wheel lip area.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  13. A Pontiac AWB Funny Car with blown Pontiac power. It doesn't get much cooler than that. I am definitely interested in this build!!!
     
  14. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,013

    belair
    Member

    This answers the question WWMTD? Incredible dedication, ability and parts. Best of luck.
     
  15. Topless Ford
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 560

    Topless Ford
    Member

  16. jammersspeed
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 346

    jammersspeed
    Member
    from herman mn.

    all i can say is.... COOL!
     
  17. fast30coupe
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 1,018

    fast30coupe
    Member
    from Illinois

  18. snaptwo
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 696

    snaptwo
    Member

    It will happen !! Subscibed.
     
  19. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Question: Are any of the body to frame mounting points affected at this point?
    Tom S.
     

  20. The body mount points are in the stock places in the frame.
     
  21. I have a question about your six bolt caps.

    I noticed that on the driver's side they are indexed, front to rear... while on the other side, it doesn't lock in like that.

    Why is that?

    Also... 2nd question...

    When you bolt those caps down... do you sealant along the pan rail? If so, do you put the sealant in there when you line bore it?

    Thanks!

    It'll be neat to see this run!

    Sam
     
  22. BuiltFerComfort
    Joined: Jan 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,619

    BuiltFerComfort
    Member

    My first car was a 65 Tempest with the 215. I always dreamed of something like this... but I'll admit that lack of v-8 power probably kept me alive when I was 16 :)
     

  23. Sam, if I understand you correctly, you are asking why one side of the #s 2, 3 & 4 main cap mounts straight on one side, and is offset on the other?

    [​IMG]

    If so, the reason is because I wanted to use the original oil pan bolt holes for further strength. The allen head bolts you see in the side rails are where the original Pontiac oil pan bolts go. By doing this, we were not able to have the caps go straight across on both sides because of the holes on the one side. So, the offsets were designed. Those spacer pieces were cut out on an EDM wire machine and then final machined to fit each individual cap to side rail. Then they were tig welded together.
    It was important for the bottom end to be modular for servicing. This is a TOP Fuel engine and the pan comes off after each pass. It is designed so all the mains can be moved, one at a time, to inspect bearings between runs. The engine lower end pics are from my 389 in my AA/FD. The 577 for the Tempest is built nearly the same way. That is way I used these pics for reference. This lower end has been in use for several years with great success. Am very pleased with it doing what I wanted and beyond. They ( all 3 ) were well worth the investment. The lower end strengthens the block lengthwise and across, providing considerable support. The 577" will be supported even more with its braces from the lower end to the deck plates and across the valley- completely surrounding the engine block with support. It'll be quite heavy too as you can probably imagine! That is another reason it is better suited for this AWB Funny Car build then in my AA/Fuel Dragster. I originally had planned the 3rd for one of my boats but, now have a very nice Pontiac 541" for it. This 541" is a completely different engine than the 577" and is based on a modern MR-1 Pontiac block from KRE. It may be used as an interum engine for the Tempest until the 577" is ready. The car will be done before the 577" and I have to put something in it. If I decide on not putting the 541" in the Tempest as a fill in, than will put in something milder, perhaps a 428 with a 6-71. Either way, the Tempest will be blown and injected with a magneto.

    I am now fitting this lower end on my 4th 389 block for my AA/Fueler. One block cracked at opposite ends when an exhaust rocker let go at Bakersfield, a second blew apart during a fire up ( my bad ) in Phoenix, the 3rd is just showing a lot of wear and some small cracks. These engine blocks are strong but, again, this is a blown nitro engine. There will be attrition and that is part of the game. They all used the same lower end as shown.

    After seeing the 392 Billet nitro block become available, I contacted the company who made them and asked where they bought their raw forgings. Then, I got ahold of that company ( in so cal ) and contracted them to build me 2 alum forgings to make my own top fuel Pontiac blocks with. I took delivery of them around 2005 but, have not worked on them yet. Much of the tooling has been made to carve out my own blocks from these 2 certified alum forgings. It is just a matter or priorites. In the meantime, the '59 and '60 389 blocks will work for me. I will post a pic of the forgings, what they look like, as time allows. This can get pretty deep designing your own forged alum Pontiac blocks for use in nostalgia Top Fuel. Plan to be in this Pontiac thing for the long run and hoping the Lord gives me several more decades to enjoy all this stuff.

    As for your second question, yes, for align bore/hone, the entire bottom end assy with side rails is bolted down. No sealer is used. I machined grooves in the side rails for o rings. There is also one between the rails and the pan adaptor and another for the pan itself. The idea was to use as little sealer and gaskets as was possible. This also speeds up servicing between rounds.

    Not aware of any other Pontiac engine ever with this many design improvements, this may apply to other makes as well. Not boasting, just telling as best I know.

    Hope this answered your questions, if not, clarify. Will answer as best I can.

    Hosting-
    14th annual Pontiac Heaven Phoenix March 30-31
    www.pontiacheaven.org

    Arizona Pontiac Power Group
    http://www.meetup.com/Arizona-Pontiac-power-group/
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  24. DamnYankeesKustoms
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 297

    DamnYankeesKustoms
    Member

    I have a couple questions....How did you bore the cylinders 3/8's, and not weaken the cylinders or even bust through into the water jackets??

    also... What did you do to the crank and block to support the extra 2'' of cylinder length??

    If you allready answered these questions I appoligize...
     

  25. Hi, I think your questions can be answered on post #6. If not, let me know. Will gadly answer whatever. My ideas can get pretty deep I guess. Perhaps I may not be typing clear answers.

    Hosting-

    14th annual Pontiac Heaven March 30-1 Phoenix
    www.pontiacheaven.org

    Arizona Pontiac Power Group
    http://www.meetup.com/Arizona-Pontiac-power-group/
     
  26. DamnYankeesKustoms
    Joined: Jan 14, 2010
    Posts: 297

    DamnYankeesKustoms
    Member

  27. As time allows, I will post pics of the spare pair of deck plates as well as the actual tall deck block as well. Cannot find them in my files. Know they are somewhere. This will make it easier to understand. Other pics too.

    Thanks again everyone for your nterest.
     
  28. QuadQuad
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 87

    QuadQuad
    Member

    Very nice project! Love the Pontiac gettin some lovin and alterin' Subscribed!
     
  29. [​IMG]
    This post concerns the 3rd member for the Tempest.
    The rear is originally out of a '63 Bonneville. We narrowed the housing ourselves with a jig I built. Recently, I purchased the parts to build the rear end from Brad at Fabcraft Metal works. This includes-
    3.64 ring and pinion
    35 spline spool
    billet yoke
    billet caps
    housing brace
    All bearings and seals
    35 spline race axles with double bolt patterns on the flanges ( 4 3/4" and 5" ).
    11/16" drive studs
    Then, I stripped down the 3rd member and cleaned it and delivered all the parts to Glenn Gibbons of Glenns Garage for assembly.
    I would like to thank and recommend both of these shops for their quality parts and service. Highly recommended.
    Fabcraft Metal Works 800-208-8242 www.fabcraftmetalworks.com
    Glenns Pontiac Garage 480-495-4022 www.glennsgarageaz.com
    As far as the mods to the housing, etc, will be posting info and pics later on this

    Finally Brad Duerst, owner of Fabcraft Metal Works in Texas, will be one of my guest speakers on Friday March 30 at the Hampton Inn Surprise, Az during the Pontiac Heaven event. More info on my site. www.pontiacheaven.org
     

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