'A' banjo rear. stock hubs with early lincoln brakes. can i use the A hubs? i've done some searching and don't see many posts about Rear hubs themselves. can anyone give us a breakdown of the different years and the differences between them? which are better? which fit with which brakes? etc... thanks guys!
No Lincoln brakes are 12", A's are smaller diameter. Just change to the later style drums.. Depending on the type of wheel that you are running. The most versatile drums are 40-48. Remember when are using the backing plate 12 " the backing plate must be indexed to clear the wheel brake cylinder from the spring shackle perch.
hey thanks, i've been reading up on it. i was thinking i would run my backing plates upside down to help clear the cylinder. anyone else have any info about the differences in hubs thru the years?
To get them to mount correctly you have to swap cylinders side to side and the bore size is going the wrong way for primary and secondary shoes.
If you turn the backing plates 180 degrees and switch the cylinders side to side with the bleeders on top,it all works out. The cylinder bores are the right way. It is hard to visualize. I have 40 brakes on the 32 and the 32 rear mounts the backing plates at an angle. I have to get the car up on a steep slope to bleed the back brakes. I need to turn them over and redrill to get them upright. I don't think the adjuster will clear if I just rotate them.
I forgot about emergency brake. The backing plates must also be swiched side to side if you want emergency brake.The cable will now come out the top.
They can be mounted in the normal possison . You can make a small notch in the backing plate to clear the spring hanger,sometimes just grinding a bit off the hanger is all you need to do. That was the case 2 weeks ago when a friend of mine did this job. Also sometimes it's easier to start the brake line flare nut into the W/C before bolting the cylinder to the backing plate.
You will only have an interference if you keep the stock shock mounts, but mounting the backing plates upside-down/on opposite sides tucks the cables up high so they are out of the way. That's how I did it on my car. I don't know what you'd do about routing the cables if you rotate the backing plates forward. They'd be pointing towards the ground. I had some problems with the parking brake levers rattling since they are mounted upside down. Tie-wraps to the brake shoes fixed that. You will also need to machine the outer lip of the backing plates to clear the brake drums, and it would be a good idea to make a couple shields to protect the hydraulic lines on the bottom. It takes a little head scratching to see it, but with the way the old juice brakes work, the self-energizing shoes will actually be at the back. The cylinders will bleed properly if you keep them on their original sides or swap sides and keep the bleeders on top. You will lose a bit of the advantage with the big bores on the front shoes. Don't sweat it, the brakes still works great. Here's a couple pix for reference.
I humbly suggest that the cylinders be swaped side to side. That puts the big bore on the trailing shoe.
thanks! this brake info is great. but im still curious about the hubs themselves. can anyone give a little info on them? what is what?
I would check some parts catalogs and see what year hub bearing interchange with the A as far as the OD on the rear axle housing. My parts book says 28-36 as far as the rear bearing for stock. The hubs from a juice rear use a different bearing, but I do not know about it's length or what the OD of the later rear axle bearing is. Model A rear axle housing race OD is 2.061 to 2.063.
Andy is right, if you mount the backing plates upside-down/on opposite sides, swapping the wheel cylinders from side to side will keep the big bores on the self-energing shoes. Either way, you will need to tweak the backing plates for the upside-down cylinders. Here is a link to a good explanation by Mart as to why the self-energizing shoes move to the rear: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238505&page=4 Depending on your tire sizes and type of front brakes, you may choose to sacrifice the hydraulic advantage by having the 1" bores on the rear shoes and the larger 1 1/8" bores on the fronts. I did this by mistake and it works fine. I guess you could argue that having the smaller bores on the self-energing shoes makes for more even braking. I only have about a 1000 miles on my car, so I'll have to wait to see how they wear. I would probably just reverse the cylinders if I did it again. When swapping sides, you will need to make a good shield to protect the brake lines coming out of the front of the cylinders. If you look close at the pictures I posted above, you can see I used that nifty coiled brake armor. All of the juice hubs from 40-48 fit fine on the Model A axles. You will need to remove a bit from the outer lips of the backing plates to clear the drums since the axles don't stick out quite as far from the Model A backing plate mounting flanges as they do on later banjo rears. I would think you could make the Model A hubs work with the Lincoln or early Ford juice drums if you had your heart set on it. Here are a couple pix comparing them. The hubs appear to be very similar, but the drum-centering bosses on the Model A hubs looks larger. Since all of the hubs mount from the backside of the drum, the wheel studs on the Model A hubs would register the drums and you should be OK. I have no idea whether or not you would need to remove material from the outer lips of the backing plates so they would clear the drums.
I ended up using the upside down technique as well, with what was the front leading shoe now being the rear leading shoe. The large end of the wheel cylinder now pushes the rear shoe (leading shoe). It went very easily with the only modification being to the backing plate where the master cylinder mounts to it. The 4 mounting holes for the cylinder do not need to be changed. Just the 1 1/2" large center hole for the cylinder itself. It needs to be reversed, orienting the the hole closer the hub. So, using a donor piece of steel, I set it in the hole oriented to the bottom and trace the hole. Then trim it, and weld it in and grind flat. Now, for the location of the new hole. I made a template of the old hole location. Then, flipped it over lining up the 4 mounting holes. This showed the new offset for the large center hole. Drill with a 1 1/2" hole saw, dress the hole and fit the wheel cylinder. Put it all together and it should look like this... Now for the M/C mount and lines.......... Soon
^ Thanks, hope it helps someone out. My project slowed to a crawl deciding how I would tackle the rear brakes.
It definitely helped me make up my mind, after quite a bit of back and forth about flipping them or rotating them. Thanks.
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