Building a modified How do I get started??

I want to build a modified (first hot rod so be kind!!). My question is whats the best way to get started? I've read alot of the threads already and I have a idea what "route" I want to go, but where do you really "start"? I'm thinking I'd like to go with a "A" cowl build my own lengthened doors and use a pickup hood to build the back panel. I was going to build the frame starting with 2x6 rails narrowed to like 3" in the front and put the seating area down in the frame. I'm 6' 4" 240lbs- so I'm trying to get all the leg room I can. Drive train I'm thinking flathead v-8 using a banjo rear end. Steering I like the looks of cowl steering setups- but is that the best setup for a car like this? I have NO clue where to go on suspension though. Is it best since I want to make my own body to get that going first and then make decisions after that? The actual frame demensions are whats probably bugging me the most right now. Just getting going so I need some help with what parts to start picking up. Whats the best start to look for for the body?

Thanks in advance!!!
Like I said- its my first build so please be kind
Rob

 

My car came with a model A frame, so I copied that for my dimensions on my frame build. If I had it to do over, I would have pinched a 2x6 and replicated a 32 frame instead. I'll try to find the thread where I saw that done.
Found It.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=649538

 

Here is my take on it. If you are going to build a chassis from scratch then what I would do is caopture the cowl and build the body to fit you. Then I would round up the drive train complete set it all in a line with the body and build the chassis to suit.

If I were going to modify a stock chassis I would capture a chassis, build my body and get my drivetrain and then modify the chassis as needed to work with my setup.

it may help to capture vern tardel's book, and study the devil out of it. Unless of course you are just one of those that likes to figure stuff out on his own. I know that several of the fellas have done that either after starting their forst car or prior and it has helped tham a ton.

 

If I build a car from scratch , I would have a body style in mind that I want and sounds like you have that end covered already .
Then I would figure out what engine , trans , rear and front end I want to use . Then I would get the frame or have one built for the style car I am building .
You need to have a good foundation to start building anything from and that is the frame . Then you can finish it so it can be a roller , set the engine and trans in place , then start with the body of choice and do those modifications to suit me . Then the rest is up to you but you have to have a good frame to build from !
Hope this helps .

Retro Jim


MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE !

 

2x6" is going to be just a bit bulky looking for something as light and small as a modified. I would go to 2x4". the best thing you can do right now is a bunch of research into early Ford suspension bits and pieces so you can get a handle on what you want to use. I would make sure you have all of the major components on hand (including wheels and tires) before you start to build the frame so you mock things up and really get you proportions nailed. At that point, the car will tell you how the frame should be built. The wheelbase in my opinion should be no long that is absolutely nesessary to excect all of the suspension, driveline and body components.

 

I agree that 2 x 6 is way too healthy for what you want to build, 2 x 3 or 2 x 4 is more than enough.

Here is the advice I always give to first time builders. Have ALL of your major components on hand before you even think of starting to build your frame. You have to have the body, engine (even if it is only a dummy of the same make and model) and some wheels and tires. Set the body at the height and stance that looks good to you (use blocks of wood and anything else to hold it up) then prop the motor up in front of the firewall where it looks good and clears things. Finally, set some wheels and tires in places where they give a good look to the car, and then sit back and have a beer and study the car.........for a long time.

How does it look to you? Is the wheelbase long enough or too long? How about ride height? You can move stuff around to get the exact look you like, THEN start figuring what frame you will need to position everything in place to achieve that finished product. Sometimes I even build the first frame out of 2 x 4 lumber so I can really visualize what the real one will look like. Wood is cheap, easy to work with, and easy to modify.

If you do it any other way, like building the frame first, you are asking for headaches and lots of do overs.

Don

 

As RetroJim said above I usually aquire my drive train and block mock everything into place and start dimensioning from there. After I have the big stuff laid out I do a set of full size draings on heavy paper so I can layout the details. I can't see how you can build anything without drawings. Sometimes we paint the drawings with rattle cans and tack them to the shop wall outside so you can actually see what you are building. The most we usually start with is a cowl and everything else is just sheet metal.

In my opinion I wouldn't use 2x6x .120 for the rails instead having a decent metal shop fold you a pair of C channels out of 10ga. oiled and pickled about 4 1/4" high with 1 3/4" legs and go from there. A frame made this way is much more traditional looking and can be hard to tell from a set of early Essex rails or something if done well. (Rivit as possible to further the illusion, crossmembers and the like.) If you can get a Model A rear crossmember and narrow it to about 30" it seems to work well. The front crossmember is usually about 22 1/2" rail to rail with a wheelbase of about 102" This seems to work well as most modifieds are not very large.

Hope this helps. If you need any other dimensions PM me.

Good luck and post pics!

 

It sounds to me like the above is one of your biggest priorities/factors in designing the car since modifieds look small.

I haven't built a car from the ground up, but I have mucked around with a couple of different mockups. I second the notion of mocking the frame up using wood, and having the major pieces of the puzzle to work with.

 

Thanks for the relies guys- I think I'm going to work on getting the body parts rounded up and get something going, hopefully along the way I trip over a front and rear axle setups. I almost forgot I have a 302 and a c-4 sitting in the shed- if I go that route it wil for sure get a hood- flattie- probably run that open. Frame I like the idea of the 2x4's for mock up- guess i've seen that before on here.

Wicked50- thats where I saw it and got the idea- the 6" frame just seemed like that would work nice for getting the seats low and back for me and yet have decent room for mechanicals.

Don- "sit back and have a beer" I'm a PRO at that!! ha ha ha I have extremely honest friends- who are pro's to- especially if its out of my fridge so I think opions wont be hard to come by

Koz/louvers- I know where your going with the wheel base- all the threads I looked at some cars I go- OHHH thats to long OR WOW thats short!! Sort of thinking the best thing I can do there is get the body built around me and the wife (shes a 6 footer) and then go from there with 2x4's and wheel and tire setups.

Welp better hit up craigslist see what I can find- drive over to the scrapyard tonight and see whats laying around do some surfing and some buying.

 

One other quick question- the cowl/doors body in general Will a "A" cowl be a good start or would I be better off with a "T" cowl? And what should I be looking for for axles (front and rear)

 

The 2 x 6 frame rails would be OK if you channel the body down over them a bit. Keep them out at the perimeter of the body so you can get down between them. This was my biggest error in my build.

 

Hey nothing to it, this build only took four years of a build by one guy with a few bro's throwin in some time once in a while. Meet the Hoodlum owned and built by Dick Warsocki of South Omaha! Recently pictured in Hot Rod magazines H.A.M.B. drags coverage. Good Luck! ~sololobo~

 

It just depends on what you want. Mine is a '27 "T" cowl narrowed about six inches... Yours with your size considerations should probably be full width, and either "A" or "T" will work.

 

grainmaker, Due to your size, Minumum cowl to start with would be a 30-31 A IMHO. You are a big dude so I would lean towards a latter pickup cab no roof. A 35-36 cab is bigger and will allow you to sit down in the car. look up the modified build by ThirdGen, He used a 40 truck cowl and the roof from a dodge delivery. He has tons of room in that tub. and it looks outstanding! After seeing what he did, I mocked up a 38 cab no roof that I have in stock with the same type of look. My neighbor drove by stopped and tried to buy it from me on the spot. Just a suggestion before you buy any model T cowl and find out how small the are. Whatever you, post your build here! Gordon

 

Rob, hammeredabone is right, as the cars got newer they also got bigger. Model a's are roomier than model t's and so forth. There are a lot more model a cowls and doors laying around than later ones, so that would be a good place to start.

Once you have the cowl and doors you are 2/3 of the way to a body. All you have to do is make a framework for the back portion and skin it with sheet metal to make a cool little rpu or modified body. I wouldn't stretch the doors because you will get into a lot more work there, I would simply add a few more inches to the back portion. It is surprising how much difference a few extra inches there can make in interior room.

To give you some ideas, here is one my Son did (that I am now using to make a little rpu). He started with a fordor sedan, used the cowl and two doors, and made the back panels as shown.

Don

First he made a framework out of 1 x 1 tubing, bent to shape.





Then he skinned it with 18 gauge sheet metal.

 

I have a slightly extended 28/9 cab. It has a 109" wheelbase. This might help you decide how long yours should be and whether an A body is right for you

 

Hi Rob..You need to have an idea what your project is going to look like when your finished...and having the major part of the parts collected to get started...I have seen a few modfied's started and never finished ..you are a big guy and you need to be comfy when you sit in it....a lot will depend on if you want to narrow the cowl...I narrowed my T cowl the width of the fuel filler door..about 10"..dosent leave much room for pedals ....I set mine up with buggy springs on the front it was about 110" W/B...there is more infomation and build photos in my albums...they are a fun car.....Doug

 

More room in an A cowl. As big as you are of you could find a 30/31 you would be better off.

 

You and your wife are pretty tall so a good stretch is in your future no matter what the cowl is. Here is the one I am building. I started with a '30 chevy truck cab and went from there. All I used was the cowl because I didn;t want to cut up the original parts. It is stretched 18" and widened in the back 12". If you channel it over the rails 2x6 won't be a problem but I used 2x4 with 3/16 wall thickness. I built the mock up frame with 2x4's. easy to cut and cheap when you want to change it. Keep the rails out as far as you can and you can sit lower in it. You sit in a modified not on it.Good luck

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=650460
I'm building something similar now. By using stock Model A drivetrain I am pretty limited to size and wheelbase. The stock unsplit wishbones tell me that "this is where the front axle goes, and thats final!" The rear torque tube tells me pretty much the same thing. So I am building my frame first, then building my body around that. My end goal is to build the Monopoly car.

My last rod was way different. I did build the frame from scratch, but before I did I needed the body parts for measurements. For example you need to allow enough room for your engine w/fan + enough clearance for the radiator. Also you need to know the length of your tub and whatever you plan to run behind the tub. Then comes wheelbase...suspension....

 

Here's a pic of one I built out of a '38 Plymouth cowl. There are more pics on this thread... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290231&highlight=koz

This one had tons of room!

 

I have a build thread on my modified. started with nothing but the front half of a 26/27 ford tub (cowl and two doors). there are plenty of them out there if you look around. I am building my own frame starting with 2x6 and then tapered them down to 3" in front.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=649538

 

Twenty one replies,, some the same and some different ideas. How are your fabricating skills, welding and welders? Extra money that is not needed by the family. Work area and tools? Sheet metal cutting and forming, bead roller?
Because of your size I would look for a 1926 or later Dodge body, really big compared to a Ford. You should do some scale drawings. If you are going to run a flathead, in my opinion, you can build the frame out of 1.5 x 3 x .120 wall frame tubing. Look at
Speedways T frame material. Where you want the front wheels and tires in relation to the radiator will help you decide on front spring mount. Like they say, the They Brothers, If it was Easy Everyone would do it. If you are interested check my album.

 

Here's the link to ThirdGen Modified

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=489941&highlight=thirdgen

 

Hi ... I agree with ."designs that work"....It is a hand built car to your own design..that makes them unique...you really need to be an all rounder with tools...I had to hire time at a sheet metal shop to use their 6' rollers for the bellypan and tub as I wanted it shaped ...finished off the tub with an English wheel ...the body frame was 1" tube..like most cars built like this you put it together and pull it down about 10 times before you finish it........Doug

 

Well I have a 300 amp mig a 110 mig a plasma cutter rated to drag cut 3/4 inch and then chop saws band saws all that good stuff- oh yeah and a torch- cant get anything done with out that!! OH and I CAN use them!! ha ha ha. I do fall a little short on the sheet metal tools but I have some places and people close by that have the tools and will help if I need it. I'm ok on the money to- as long as the wife and kids get used to eating watered down tomato soup for awhile I run a antique tractor repair and restoration biz on the side and I worked rebuilding construction equipment for 5 years so I do know my way around a shop. The sheet metal will be the biggest problem for me but I think I can hack my way through it- but just incase maybe I'll buy 3 of everything before I get going.

I'll admit I'm not much of a "planer" I'm more of the grab it and go, seat of pants type of guy.

Space is not a problem-

 

It's easy, just follow these 20 steps.....

 

Sweet! Thats likes a mans grocery list right there!!

 

And you end up with this....

 

Here is something that just occured to me, no doubt someone else has mentioned it. The front havlf od a T or A touring makes a beautiful modified. It will save you a lot of scratch building and is the way that a lot of them used to get built.