Hey Old Farts,it,s time to learn CAD.

Well I have ProE loaded on my work computer and havent spent the time to learn that, used it every day 15 years ago but several generations later it takes me forever to draw a cube.
Im sure TMFCracing can run out soem great stuff with the waterjet.
Lets see some more examples

 

no. But they also didn't have inverter tigs.
I have experimented a lot with water and laser cutting, and it is cheaper. I've been able to really take my game up a notch using these things. Its also good for designing tool stands and various jigs for making or modifying parts.

 

Thanks Heyitsnarte , I couldn't find words to answer that post.

 

I realy do appreciate the most guys here and there amazing workmenship.
And I also like Old Farts , I just wrote it on the thread headline for fun. This
thread is for sure to the younger hambers to

Start do some drawings Johnny

 

Also, check into Autodesk's 123D free 3D modeller:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=16971648

Frank C.

 

wow, what a way to think outside of the box -the early pioneers would have used this if they had it available. guess it is kinda like the forever debate of bias ply vs radial tires.

 

AM i to old ? I fab sheeeeeet for years.
B.B.

 

One thing is for sure - as long as I'm still alive and breathing, I'll continue to learn new tools, new techniques, seek better equipment along the way.

When I was 18 (35 years ago), I was BLESSED to have a really good stick welder . . . only guy in my hotrod group that had one. With that said, when I saved enough to buy a TIG welder (3 years ago) and decided "it can't be that hard to learn" . . . man am I glad I took the plunge. My trusty stick welded will now only be used on really thick stuff (which isn't on my car).

The most important things about CAD for me is dimensional accuracy, repeatability, precision and incremental design. You design something, if it isn't quite right, you tweak it, you print some samples, test fit, whatever . . . you do get it right in the end and make a nice part. Then, you can make as many as you need.

Keep learning guys - the tools are better/cheaper/free - if you're interested, plenty of ways to expand your capabilities.

Buy hey, if you like making parts by hand (like most of us do for the majority of our work), more power to yah! As long as you're creating, making progress and having fun - we should all be happy! Me - I hate making brackets, exhaust flanges and the like . . . just seems like a waste of my time (especially after the first one ).

B&S

 

Bored&Stroked, can you go into more details on what this CAD deal does, I'm clueless. What does a bracket drawn on a piece of paper with S curves and a circle template not have that the exact one drawn on a computer, a pattern is a pattern isn't it?

 

I've been using Solidworks and ProE to draw my parts for the last couple years, as I am going to school for Engineering and get the student versions for free. It makes it so much easier to draw the parts up on the computer, print them off, test fit, and tweak from there. Once they're perfect, send them to get lasered. I've made lots of parts cheaper and more accurate than it would cost me just to buy the steel plate to make it myself. The 3D capability is nice to use also, since parts can be drawn in sheetmetal and then flattend and printed off 1:1, as well as using weldments for jigging or frames, and then getting a cutlist to build it from. I've been using Pops29 for my lasercutting needs, very quick turnaround and excellent pricing.

 

Now, that is a very good question . . . have been into this for so long, that I forgot where it all started - as manual drafting on the board! The key thing about a CAD design is that it is an intelligent electronic design . . . though it looks very much like a hand drawn one. Once you have it right, then you create an output file - typically what is known as a "DXF" file (stands for 'Drawing Exchange Format' - created by Autodesk).

Note: There are different file formats for 2D versus 3D - and in 3D it gets more complex. So, in 3D, normally I just send them the actual CAD file and then generate CNC code from the file and run their machines from the G-Code.

Anyway, for 2D -- all you do is eMail the DXF file to any laser, water, plasma cutter -- tell them the material and thickness and they'll load that DXF file into their machine and cut an exact part. There are some limitations on things like minimum hole sizes (depending on equipment), but the process is slick as hell.

To give you an example, I designed and had some stainless header flanges made for a special set of Hemi Heads . . . cost me a little over $100 dollars (they supplied the 304 stainless). The ports have four different blended curves in them -- not easy stuff for me to even think about making on my mill. By the time I would have bought material and whacked them out on the mill, then done a bunch of hand work with a die grinder, I'll bet I'd have two solid days in them. For a guy who doesn't have much time to spare - doing the CAD design in about 4 hours, having them made and then having the design for future headers is cost effective for me. I'll bet if I priced out just the material - it would have cost me over $50 easy.

For the countless brackets and gussets that I need, I'll use water/laser cutting for many of them. Then a nicely curved bracket costs me $7 - 10, it is worth it from a time savings perspective.

Here is the header flange:

 

if you draw in In cad they guy running water jet doesn't have to do it cuts down on costs and time.

 

I hear ya. I work with cadd and 3D cadd (Revit) modeling every day of the workweek. When I come home, I use paper and pencil and cardboard templates and a torch to fabricate brackets and whatever. It takes me back to simpler days when rodders used these simple techniques to build traditional hot rods. The parts LOOK hand-fabricated, not computer-generated. This is what it's all about, for me. But I understand that others would rather use advanced technology like water jetting to create their parts. Whatever works for ya!

 

37,
As flynfrog put it, the main advantage is when you have someone else building the actual part using computer driven tools. In terms of time savings, CAD is a big help on complex parts, because everything is drawn 1:1 scale automatically, and your workspace is as big as you need it to be. Ever tried drawing an accurate full-size chassis print by hand? CAD will beat you like a rented stepchild on something like that.

Having said that, I went through my CAD phase; and I've pretty much gone back to napkins... But then I'm not having as much CNC stuff done anymore, either.

 

Hi Kid. Let me try to answer your question as simply as possible. I was a pre-cad draftsman for 25 years. We'd draw machines on 24'+ long sheets...pretty big drawings...sometimes multiple drawings to show multiple views. The one thing you can always be assured of when it comes to any mechanical design, is that it will change...for any number of reasons...human error, or something else has changed, making the original design of the item in question obsolete...or maybe somebody in management just changes their mind. Regardless of why...they have to be changed...often more than once...no matter how slightly. And the change has to be showed in all the separate views, of course. You can imagine the work we went through to do the changes...we actually used electric rotary-type erasers. Sometimes, the amount of erasing was so extensive, that I threatened to design and build a gas-powered eraser...lol. We'd end up with piles of eraser-shavings!

Do you ever generate a text-document in Microsoft Office Word? Much easier to change than a hand-written document...right? Same idea.

So, in addition to what some others have said...the fact that a digitally-generated drawing has info within it that a hand-drawing does not...what you might think of as a "smart" drawing...it can also be changed so much easier and quicker...and no eraser shaving piles...lol.

Now, this may not be quite so important for a smaller, less involved design, but the benefits still apply.

One downfall to the digital drawings, is that now the major manufacturers can easily send them anywhere in the world...and they do. Much of the design-work in this country is now being sent overseas, and has been instrumental in the massive loss of design-jobs here. But that's a separate issue from what we're talkin' about.

 

Thanks guys, so the CAD "Thing" whatever it is, maybe something like a floppy disk gets stuffed in a CNC machine, you close the doors push a button and lube starts flying along with chips and a part is spit out after the done signal rings, right?

 

Yes...CAD stands for "Computer Aided Design. CAM stands for "Computer Aided Machining". Thus, "CAD/CAM" engineering. So basically, do the design-work on a computer, transfer the info to removable media, insert the media into the computer that runs the machine, push the "go" button, and stand back.

P.S. - CNC stands for "Computer Numerical Control".

 

Not quite. The program has to be written for that cnc mill to make the part, but the programmer uses the CAD drawing and dimension to base the program off of.

 

Thanks! I bet you could even explain how to read cell phone measages too.

 

There is another aspect that no one notices.
By using the electronic data transfer to the machine tool there is no "operator" error.
In the first CNC machines, a programmer had to interpret the drawings and then reconsturct the part in machine G code.
In many crossover Draftsmen, from paper to CAD, the "dimension editing" practice will cause problems. It is the actual geometry that the CAM system uses. In this light, I have worked with many programmers and machinists who do not want a dimensioned print/file, only critical tolerances and finish.

Draftsite is pretty good, there are other freewares that output DWG/DXF file formats also.

I use CAD to do initial layouts and geometry for suspension and linkages because you can modify it and see immediate results. In fact, between excel and autocad I have retired my HP RPN calculator.

John