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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    1934 Italian Gp ...........Nuvolari



    [​IMG]
     
  2. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

  3. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
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  4. Track Rod
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 16

    Track Rod
    Member

    I do not have any photos of the Ogren Special but there was a driver with the surname "Cody" driving an Ogren Special in Louis-Disbrow-promoted races in the midwest in the summer and fall of 1918. Does anyone know what Cody's full name was?
     
  5. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
    Member
    from Paradise.

     
  6. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,291

    jimdillon
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    Track Rod-His name was Frank W Cody. I would be interested in any info on the Ogrens you speak of, especially any engine specifications and pictures no matter how crude. My records on the Ogrens is very thin in 1918 and with Disbrow they might be some of the 1915 cars as opposed to the Ogrens outfitted for 1916.

    Anyone with any info on the Ogrens wouldn't hurt my feelings if they posted such info. Thanks-Jim
     
  7. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    I have Al Cotey driving an Ogren at Chicago drome 1918 and here the only picture I have at Elgin 1919

    [​IMG]

    ...and a reference to them using a Continental in 1916 but that's all I have.
     

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  8. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,291

    jimdillon
    Member

    Andy thanks for that pic. I have other pics of the car but not that one. I am quite sure this is the car that Al Cotey attempted to qualify at Indy in 1919. I believe this car had a Miller

    As to the Continental in 1916 that is possible I suppose as Hugo Ogren had a number of cars, but I believe if such is the case that it was one of his pre 1916 chassis/bodied cars. Just a guess.-Jim
     
  9. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 245

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    I don't have any specific info on the Ogrens, but do have a newspaper clip from September 1918 that mentions Al Cotely. I'd be interested in seeing more pictures of the "Outlaws" from 1918.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,291

    jimdillon
    Member

    Zig Zag I also would be interested in seeing more of the outlaws from 1918. Due to the war there was not much in the way of big races, at least not AAA. There were some racing on the second tier circuits such as the article you attached. At some of these state fair races, the cars that raced were often cars that no longer were super competitive on the big tracks but they still did well on the dirt.

    I try not to speculate too much on which cars raced on these tracks, as it seems every time I go out on a limb and state with any certainty I later find out I was wrong in some way or another. 1918 is the one year I have the least print material on racing during this era.

    Thanks for the article. Even though there is no real stats of the cars it shows that Disbrow was running his Zip when I think he had a little outdated Dues in his stable (I think he had it at this time). We have had some minor discussion on the ZIP. Also Gaston had one of the Sunbeams which was good to see. I would like to track down this car they had in their stable in terms of events etc. Keeps me thinking. Thanks, again.
     
  11. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    Jim the 1919 Indy Ogren was Miller carbed at least but listings I have say it was a Duesenberg chassis and motor and all the others but 1916 Continental {which may have been related to the introduction of his production car) are listed as Duesenberg powered. He sure did have a lot of cars and drivers so it's quite possible there was a Miller in there somewhere.

    [​IMG]
     

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  12. ehdubya
    Joined: Aug 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,315

    ehdubya
    Member

    another interesting 1919 ad...

    [​IMG]
     

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  13. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,291

    jimdillon
    Member

    Andy, the DePalma ad is pretty cool with the 905. Once DePalma set the speed record at Daytona with the car in February he was good material for selling whatever. I am not so sure he used all the products that they hawked in the ads.

    As to the Ogren there is really no evidence to show it is a Duesenberg and Fox made a few errors and I believe he made an error here as well. Both the specs for Indy and Elgin list the engine specs as a 289 with 3 5/8 x 7 the same as the Bender which we knew was a Miller (there is a pic of that car with the hood off), and of course Oldfield's rebodied Sub. I have run across the stats of this Ogren several times and it always comes up with the 7" stroke. Only Miller had a 7" stroke with one overhead camshaft and 16 valves. The Duesenberg stroke was 6 3/4 with Dual shafts. The only question I have on the #35 Ogren is whether the engine is aluminum as opposed to the Iron Miller that Ogren bought in 1916. The first outing for the #35 Ogren I believe was the Chicago Derby in June of 1917 (where Ogren ran both of his 7" stroke motors-driven by Henning and Mason). I am guessing the engine is aluminum but that is based on nothing more than what the ouija board told me. I believe Ogren to be the first purchaser of the Miller four, only it was the iron engine (1916).

    Ogren did run one (or two) of the older Duesenberg with a 6.75 stroke (and 8 valves) in 1916 (and probably 1915). He also ran a car in 1917 I believe with a 6" stroke but I am not sure of which powerplant this was (never tried to track it down) although certainly not a Miller. Ogren had a few bucks and he ran cars out of his Chicago shop and his Wisconsin shop. He could afford some of the good stuff for sure-Jim
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2011
  14. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
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    Jim,for what it is worth Tom Alley drove an Ogren in the October 2, 1915 Astor Cup at Sheepshead Bay in New York. He was DePalma's riding mechanic at INDY in 1914 his bio claims.
     
  15. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,291

    jimdillon
    Member

    Bob, I am aware of that car. It was a 6" stroke Duesenberg, I am quite sure. He also drove it in 1916, including at Indy. Ogren may have had a 6 3/4" Duesenberg in 1916 but I cannot swear to that.

    In 1916 Alley had Miller build him an engine and when he secured Pan American Motor Car as a sponsor he ran it as the Pan American in 1917 until Bender took over the sponsorship in 1918 (and he ran it as the Bender at Indy in 1919-5th place). The Pan American/Bender had an aluminum four SOHC Miller.

    And it is correct he was the riding mechanic for DePalma in 1914 and maybe in early 1915 I cannot remember for sure without looking at notes.-Jim
     
  16. Track Rod
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 16

    Track Rod
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  17. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,458

    noboD
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    Haven't seen you post in a while Jim, hope all is well.
     
  18. jimdillon
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,291

    jimdillon
    Member

    I have been pretty good, just really busy with work so that I have not been able to spend much time with the fun stuff like working in the shop and talking old racecars. Got a little break so taking advantage I suppose. This stuff does not get old with me for some reason.-Jim
     
  19. davidvillajr
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
    Posts: 1,165

    davidvillajr
    Member

    This is an amazing contraption, what should I google to find info?

    thanks,

    dv

     
  20. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Walter Christie.

    I believe there is a fair bit about the Christie cars in this thread,also.
     
  21. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    I really don't recall if this photo has been posted before. Does anyone know where this is and what year.

    Double click thumbnail for larger image..

    [​IMG]
     

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  22. Buildy
    Joined: Jan 29, 2008
    Posts: 1,521

    Buildy
    Member

    Is this one of the Library of Congress photos. If so it could be Denver around 1925-6.

    I`m sure Michael Fernier will correct if I messed it up.
     
  23. gilmore
    Joined: Apr 28, 2009
    Posts: 89

    gilmore
    Member
    from Missouri

    Just wanted to thank all of you that post in this thread and the '69 and older thread. I truly enjoy looking at the threads even though my interests are mainly with american racing... and at that, pre-war stuff... and at that, 1930 - 1941... and at that, mainly the Indy and Pacific Coast racing scene... and at that, specifically, the racing sponsorship of a west coast oil company- the Gilmore Oil Company... and at that... J/k

    Thanks for keeping history alive.
     
  24. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
    Member

    Check eBay for a volume 14 number 3 copy of Automobile Quarterly, there is a really good feature on the history of Christie built cars. :)
     
  25. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    Thanks Tony. I searched the LOC and you are correct. The photo was posted by one of the guys at the MTFCA a few weeks ago.
     
  26. Michael Ferner
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 813

    Michael Ferner
    Member

    1918 is a difficult year for pictures, I've seen VERY few. This ad is from the short period of time when AAA stopped sanctioning races, and many of the AAA stars ran IMCA. Just a week earlier, Disbrow had won a 25-mile event at the Wisconsin State Fair driving the Zip, and beating Earl Cooper (Stutz), Cliff Woodbury (Duesenberg) and Jerry Wonderlich (Marquette-Buick). Gaston Chevy was also there, driving the Sunbeam, and Wilbur d'Alene in an unknown car. Before that, the group had raced at Fort Miami/Toledo (OH), Kalamazoo (MI) and many more places, I'm sure.

    Another IMCA troupe was running at Jackson (MI), Edmonton (AB), Brandon (MB), Regina (SK), Winnipeg (MB) and the Iowa and Oklahoma State Fairs during the same time - Jules Ellingboe, Leon Duray, Bill Endicott, Tom Alley, Ray Lampkin, George Clark, Sig Haugdahl and Ben Gotoff starred on that tour. Car identities are very difficult to ascertain for these races, as info is sparse and pictures non-existant. Gimmie Toft was said to race an ex-Rickenbacher Maxwell, and Ellingboe's Briscoe was apparently driven by Art Klein the year before.
     
  27. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

    Bumped into this whilst looking at cyclecars,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


    SCAP........


    [​IMG]
     
  28. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

  29. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279

    model.A.keith
    Member

  30. what Olympic competition was that car used in? any history on it?
     

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