how do you paint youre metalflake..

What is the proper time? Thanks

Jesse

 

There are far too many jerks on this website that would rather make fun of someone's grammar over helping them with an actual problem.

As another poster asked, how long are you waiting to apply the additional clear? If you waiting much longer than 10-15 minutes, that could be the problem. I have sprayed metalflake with 2K clear without any issues.

 

Flash times vary from paint line to paint line. General rule of thumb 10-15 min. Of course this depends on temp and ambient humidity but you can't really go wrong with this stuff. The stuff not stickig sounds like an incompatible paint line. Are you using same flake carrier as your 2k clear?

 

same stuff
it's maybe cause of the size of the work too
small stuff never gives issues ,now that i did a roof it's comin off
i think it should have worked though
cause i sprayed at a normal temperature ,about 22 degrees celcius
and i didn't wait any longer than 20 minutes between coats
cause the clear ,with flakes in it came off the base (blew right off ,like there never had been anything on the base)
i think the basecoat closed off ,not grabbing the clear
but how that could've happened ,i have no clue!!
a basecoat should always stay open for 24h max.. i don't think you can shorten that time

i'm from 23 and from europe ,english isn't my first language
it may not be a 100% ,but i think everyone knows what i'm saying

 

Yeah it could have just been a bad batch of base too. I've had that happen on a job where the car was spray at 4 separate time and a week later the whole thing looked like a snake shedding it's skin. Turns out what we thought was the issue is that it was a custom mix color and the paint shop forgot to add in the binder....

 

Lighten up Francis. It was a joke.

20 minutes sounds a bit too long. I like to watch the flash rather than the time. I also like to touch the masking paper where the overspray is with my finger to gauge it. Kind of a seat of the pants approach. Everytime I've waited more than a week or so to clear a base, I've always hit it with a scotchbrite to open it back up.

 

20 minutes to spray over the basecoat shouldn't be too long is it?
like i said ,a 1k base should always stay open for 24h for other paints to stick
at least that's what i'm told..

as for the 2k clear ,i don't know if that was too long ,it was still sticky
and it seemed to have worked cause it came off as one layer
the problem has to be between the base and the clear.
i fixed the problem ,just wanna see if anyone has an explanation

they also told me this
that when i was spraying layer after layer of clearcoat (with some dry time inbetween)
they said probably the last coat caused the all the layers of clear to come off??
sounds a little farfetched ,anyone?

hope everyone will get a little knowledge out of this thread including me
thanks everyone so far

 

20 minutes is not too long for basecoat. Some basecoats have an "open" time of over 8 HOURS.
Are you using different brands of paint ( base and clear)? Or did you use a different brand of hardener than you were supposed to? Or reducer? Did you use a "cleaner" to wipe the car down before clearcoating? Was there a source of contamination present between the flake and the clear like someone spraying another chemical in the shop...WD-40, Armor All, etc.)?
If you followed the instructions, did as you told us you did, used the correct materials, then it might have been a bad batch of basecoat.
Paint is almost as much magic, as it is science. but using different brands (which means different chemistry, in some cases) is a good way to have problems. I know lots of guys do it, but most good painters either do it the right way, or have years of experience to tell them when they can mix products.
It's an expensive mistake to make, both in materials wasted, and time wasted re-doing it.

 

I have a quick, probably dumb question. over on J.J. there was a discussion about using that Duplicolor pre packaged laquer that the major auto parts chains sell. One of the guys mentioned using the clear as a carrier for flake, and that he was quite happy with it.
Here's the deal. I can't shoot anything but laquer anymore without putting myself in bed for several days due to allergies. I have a bike I'm building that I would like to flake, and I would like to be the one behind the gun. I do have a buddy that would shoot urethane clear for me, so I am covered there. Has anybody over here used this product or technique?

 

Personally I wouldn't use lacquer for it. I was used in the old days, as it was the only thing to use, but first, excessive build of lacquer is prone to cracking, and depending onn the quality of it, yellowing. Of course this included the covering up of the flake, too, adding to the build thickness, and hence, problems.
Second, there is always a lot of discrepancy over putting urethane over lacquer. It is not an ideal application, and prone to delamination. Though, again, back when urethanes first came out, Dupont actually made a 2K clear to go over lacquer, and House of Kolor used to have specific instructions on putting their urethane clear over their lacquer. I did it back then, so did my mentor, Imron over MC tanks was very popular in the late 70's for protection form gas spills. Used it on race cars, too.

 

thanks for youre input chopolds
no ,didn't use anything else than ppg..
basecoat ppg ,clear ppg ,spirit wipe ppg
i paint in my garage ,but i've been painting there for years
i clean out the whole place a day before painting
i honestly can't imagine what else could be contaminating the paint..
so i have to say it was a bad batch of base..
but that is almost impossible to prove..

 

maybe too much flake ,and less clear??
causin the clear not to build

 

give me a run down of your steps.. from primer up. base, midcoat with flake or 2k clear with flake.. regular clear. flash time.. gun used info like that.

in a garage paint is tricky.. u gotta understand that all flash times are for a booth that has air flow..

in a garage or open condition with poor flow causes flash times to be longer. after u get past 3 or 4 coats of clear.. u need to let flash times go up.. they can go from 10 to 15 mins up to 30 mins. its not un common.

for multiple layers of clear in one session past 4 coats hok uc35 is tough to beat.

 

I always spray my flake (usually house of kolor or PPG) through my Sata jet 4000, and it's a 1.3. You dont need a huge tip to make it work. I personally avoid the 1.8-2.0 tips to control how much material is going on. This isn't lacquer anymore where 20 coats is better.

I use PPGs Global D894 color blender, or PPG Deltron DBC500 as a carrier for the flake. You have a 24 hour top coat time with these base coat. You don't want to use only binder, or 2k urethane clears as a carrier. Usually putting that much 2k clear on a panel will cause it to Solvent pop. Keep in mind your film build on 2k urethane clears isn't designed to be that thick all at once. Imagine a cup of pudding out on the kitchen table. The top of it skims off, keeping the bottom wet. In 2k urethane clear, the same thing happens, trapping solvents underneath, and causing die-back (loss of gloss) after you put your top coat clear on, or solvent pop. The solvents that are trying to evaporate as gasses are now trapped due to that skimmed off layer at the top. This causes the gasses to expand into little tiny bubbles, making the job look shitty.

As far as flash times, everything in the paint world is standardized at 70 degrees. There is a principle, or rule, called the 15-50 rule.

The rule says, that for every 15 degrees above, or below 70 degrees, your flash time is either cut in half, or doubles.

Let's say flash time is 10 min @ 70 degrees. If it is now 85 degrees, your flash time becomes 5 min.

On the other side, if the temp is 55 degrees, your flash time becomes 20 min.

 

are u balling that much u would use a brand new spray gun that just barely came out for just flake?

a 1.3 will have a tough time spraying a .0015 or larger flake full coverage.

while the rule for temps may be close.. selecting the right temp reduder or hardner will bring it all right back to about the same. the one thing i do after i get past 3 wet coats of clear is just giving the clear a little bit longer flash time.. to avoid solvent pop and dieback. with intercoat clear for alot of coats i will do the same plus give it a few hours before clearing.. sometimes over nite if there is alot going on. once under 65 degrees i always give it more flash time regardless of temp selected.

 

How about one of you experienced painters doing a step by step on Metal flake for the Tech archives?It would be a killer Tech Week thread !I'm interested in learning how to spray using the "Wet flake" process I'm sure lots of others would be too.

 

that's a good idea ,maybe a video
couldn't really find that on youtube
but just to let everyone know ,it worked
i sprayed at a lower pressure ,so i could build up a thicker layer
also added less flakes to the mix than usual
about 2 teaspoons per quart

 

What are guys using to get a hot pink flake? Is it a hot pink candy over silver base then a silver flake? Or a metallic pink base with hot pink flake? My flake always seems to look like a bunch of black dots on a base color. Unless the sun is hitting it just right then it really pops. But indoors nothing but black dots....Is this normal?

 

I use a medium reducer and 2k clear to carry my flake. I spray the flake and wait for it to flash. I then spray three more coats of just clear. I then wet sand with 600 two or three days after and top coat with 2you more coats of clear. Comes out nice to me.

I was taught from a friend that is a bodyman on flash time. He says wait till you can drag a finger with very little pressure on your mask right next to your panel and if it doesn't pull the clear or isn't sticky then its ready to recoat

 

I havn't sprayed much flake but it sounds to me like you had too much flake in your clear. I have sprayed both PPG and Standox clear and the PPG is way thinner than the Standox. I'm sure you noticed when you mixed up the PPG the first time that it does not have the same viscosity as the Standox. That could be the source of your problems.

 

In my opinion I would go with the pink base and pink candy . Yes its normal as the base didn't have maximum coverage, when I shoot my flake I try to cover the base color with the flake until the base is barely visible. Once I tried doing a light coat of flake on a pastel/solid base and it looked like I sprinkled it with pepper.

 

What pink base do you use. I can't seem to get a hot pink metallic to mix. Is just goes rose or strawberry!?

 

wow, with threads like this (agree on need for detailed tech thread) and the thread by Lucky 444 " Mooneyes, Yokohama Hot Rod and Custom Show" with all of the fantastic paint jobs really motivate me to not be so "gun shy"

 

Im no painter but I've sprayed flake once with acrylic . Laid down a base colour , mixed the flake into some clear , gave it enough coats until I was happy wth the look and then shot about a dozen coats of clear over the top . All in acrylic . It looks ok but it's really rough . Now I'm not sure what to do with it as I'm re painting the rest of the car and going from flat black to black with clear so I've got a fair old edge to deal with !?!