Found this truck behind a barn not far from home. Grabbed it and brought it home. The flathead six in it is shot, been left sitting without a head, pan, and pistons and rods for 20+ years. Want an opinion on the power train. I lean toward putting an original flathead in it, if not that a red ram hemi has been kicking around in my head. Seems to me these two are about the only thing that would do it justice. But, always one of these, friend has a warmed over 318 with a 727 for what it would cost me for a salvage yard 218 flathead. Question you will ask is what are my plans for the truck, mostly just running around town and the countryside here. But would like to be able to road it at turnpike speeds and don't think the six would be up to much of that. But if I swap out for higher speed travel would the 318 be a let down in this truck when telling folks what it has in it? Again I'm building a driver not show. So let me know your opinions...thanks.
I think you already know the answer. A 318 or 360 with a later-model overdrive automatic would be just the ticket in a truck like that. If you really want to tow something substantial, think about a 440.
Thanks for reply, don't know what the market is for a truck like this restored or otherwise, just want to make it isn't so far out there it isn't worth anything. For what I want use it for I think the 318 would do the trick, but flatheads are pretty cool.
If you're leaving it a 1.5 ton truck, you'll be downgrading the value. Pickup trucks are the valuable trucks not biggies.
Looked at the larger six but the length would require some firewall work to fit. The small six is literally firewall to radiator.
Screw what other people think about the 318. If its a good deal, readily available and will do what you want - around town driving - GO FOR IT. Hotrodders, traditional especially don't give a rip about what other people think. If they did they would have never pulled fenders off, made their cars noisy, and on and on.
Pasadena, are you saying that leaving it original is a downgrade, or putting a 318 in is a downgrade, not sure what you were trying to tell me. Agreed the small .5 tonners are the best to do but I really like big trucks and couldn't pass this by.
Dan, agreed, many said it was waste put a 12v cummins in my old f100 but hotrodding is exactly that putting as much engine in as possible. The 318 will make it much more drivable. Thx.
You could always put the body on a late Cummings powered Ram chassis, make a car hauler out of it. or of you want to keep it more period, just about any Mopar Flathead will swap in up to 59 (and later) Flaties are expensive to rebuild, but are pretty easy to find in good running condition. Measure the length of the block There were two version of standard MOPAR flatheads, 23.5 inch for dodge and plymouth in displacement from 198 to 230, and the 25 inch used in Desotos and Chrylsers available in 228-265 cubes. the 25 inch engines were in all cars/trucks produced in Canada. Accomodating the longer engine can be involvd but also as simple as moving the radiator to the front side of the mount, Another source is Massey Harris combines from the 50's. Also air porttugs, and ground support equipment. So if you live in an agricultural region you can find engines in irrigations pumps, welders, air compressors, or at your regional airport. The airport tugs used the long block engines with torqueflights in a lot of applications look for Clark tractor made stuff. Parts can be found at Vintage power Wagons, Egge, Terrill machine in Texas (recomended) You can find or make dual intake and exhaust stuff. Check www.rustyhope.com for manifold conversions.
If you need/want to maintain the stock rear axle then see what gear ratio you have. You may need an A518 to make it on the freeway. Also note that the stock axle is missing an e-brake. To remedy that you can swap the axle or find a motor home transmission. The larger mh transmissions had the e-brake on the tailshaft, both small block and big block varieties, but the big blocks were more commonly used due to curb weight. NO od on these units. Why not use a 4BT ? .
Plym, the block is the small one, 23.5 inch length. The 25 inch would require a lot of work to fit, another reason the 318 sounds promising. 73RR, gearing is one of my concerns. This is also the reason I'm not considering the 4bt, rpm limitations. Really want to maintain the 5bolt budd wheels and the motorhome thing may be the direction to go for this and have gearing options.
I'm just saying that a big truck is rarely, or never, worth more than a pickup all other things being equal. Originality is not really relevant, engine/transmission etc. choice don't matter that much either. What matters is what YOU want to do with it. Just don't worry about the money if you do the big truck thing. Cars are investments in fun and most are lucky to ever see that money again. Truth be told...most cars are worth more in well done rod form than restored to or all original.
I think a 318 would be a lot harder to fit than a bigger flathead, the 318 is roughly the same length as the small flathead from the water pump to the bell housing but it's about twice as wide. I don't know what the engine compartment looks like but judging by the size of the hood I'll bet the flathead is squeezed in there with little room to spare, there's no way a 318 is going to slip right in there without massaging the firewall. In my opinion keeping it flathead powered would be cooler looking if your going for that older "work truck" look but the 318 would definatly be cheaper, easier to get parts for, and be more drivable.
Let me run this past you: Over the last two weeks, in cape coral, FL, there is a guy who inherited one exactly like yours, same year, etc, except it is original and in great running condition, and he's been bringing it to Fosters Grill cruise in on Wednesdays nights. He wants $35,000 firm. FIRM FIRM. If I were you, I'd consider restoring it.
He's going to be driving that expensive restored big truck around for a long long time at that price. A nicely done hot rod 36 Dodge pickup would bring that money...
He'll never get it. Not unless he holds onto it another 20 or 30 years and inflation catches up. Just because someone is asking $35k, doesn't mean its worth that. Most of the big trucks I've seen restored that have actually sold are in the $10-15k range. $35k is my '37 1/2 ton with a hemi in it territory. '36 Dodges came with 25" engines too. In fact, my '37 Dodge 1/2 ton has a 25" engine in it. Basically, you weld some tabs to extend the "feet" on the engine mount, and rework the radiator mount to move the radiator forward. It actually surprises me a little it has the 23" engine in it, most of the big trucks had 25 inchers. Anyway, a 25" engine would give you some more options for displacement, I believe all the way up to 265 if I remember right. As far as the 318, it should fit, but it will have to sit all the way back against the fire wall. The fenders taper in A LOT, so in order to keep the valve covers out of the fenders you have to put the engine right on the firewall. Should work for a 318, you'd still probably have to lose the inner fenders. That's the big reason why I'm thinking about putting a 270 poly in mine, maybe a 270 hemi. I'd love to put one of my Chrysler hemi's in it, but I don't want to cut the fenders (or go to a MII set up to put the engine down lower). Anyway, here's a picture of the engine bay on my '37, if it helps you any. I have bigger pictures I can send too, or if you want something specific just let me know...
Agreed, market value isn't determined by asking price but buying price. Pretty sure this has the little block and fire wall is flat, will see what it will take to move the radiator forward to fit the larger block in it. Problem with moving the radiator forward is fitting original ram hood ornament/radiator cap. If this gets into very much fab and modification to run a flathead will just go the v8 route. Thanks for all replies, farely new on here and appreciate all the feedback and thoughts. S
That's a cool find. Nothing wrong with trying to stay original, or close. Maybe you should do a search for a mopar site. See if you have a chapter of the American Truck Historical Society in your area and contact them. Bet you'll get all kind of ideas and help. As for axles, the rear is probably gearbound. That truck at best will do 45mph. An overdrive tranny will greatly help, you might get to 55mph. The brakes are probably a little weak, and you'll have to be very careful and try to plan your stops!!! LOL If you search for a 60-70's ford f500 or dodge chassis, you can find 5 lug axles that will look stock, but have better brakes, and if lucky, tubeless rims. Might even have a better gear in the rear too!
go with the 318, if you do it well it can always be changed at a later date, its always more fun when you can run the wheels off going wherever and whenever you wish.
If you even are considering doing anything other than the occasional parade, I'd switch out to the 318 and modern running gear. We are a hotrodding forum, and plenty of us would support modifications to your original engine and running gear if it was salvagable. That doesn't seem to be the case. That 318 will be reliable, get you on the road, and can be easily swapped out to a 340-360 for more cubes later if you want even more ooomph. For the bigger truck, the 318 will be enough, but as you already know, enough for a hotrodder isn't ever enough.
Definitely has the 23.5 inch block and flat firewall with about half inch clearance. For grins I measured the 5.0 ford I have sitting in the garage and it is too long to fit between the radiator and firewall without modifications to either.
I squeezed this in my '36 Dodge, you can get a 318 in there. Just slide the steering box back on the frame to the cab, lengthen the drag link 6", shorten the column. But a stock '36 1 1/2 ton truck is a 40 mph truck that rides like a log wagon. Hot Rod it!!
36dodgeram, that is exactly what I'm looking to do, thanks. You didn't need to make any mods other than what you outlined? Don't see your steering setup in the photo, would really like to see more photo's of your build, please.
If you search some of my earlier posts, you will see alot of the work on my '36 explained and pictures. Anything else you need , just ask.
Put a Cummins 4BT 4cylinder diesel in it and simply blow the doors off any V8 or I6 gasser you could find in terms of reliability and towability...... Or get creative on the firewall and go with the big 6 cylinder Cummins...thus using it as a big 1.5 ton truck....today as in 2011....
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