Should I cast a Stromberg 97 EFI throttle body?

If it looks too much like a real 97 will you run into any trademark or copyright issues? Either with the original or with any of the aftermarket clones?

 

x2!!!

 

I would really like to see your finished product. Don't give up. I have a slant six project I think this might be perfect for. How much cfm will these flow?

http://www.doctorinjector.net/7343.html

 

I have done some simulations on flow characteristics and the current design should flow 439 CFM at 28" H2O pressure drop.

 

i'd be interested for sure. would also be cool if you could run a set of "sp" or "scott" tops with them. that way they are different from the other efi stuff out there! keep me posted!!


on a different subject, i bought one of the "pushbutton" shifters retrotek sold through moon. it was a nightmare trying to get it after i paid for it and it took over a year! poor customer service and quality is probably why they no longer offer parts like their efi!

 

I bought a www.retrotekspeed.com 6x 2 setup for my 46 Olds project. Not exactly traditional but has the looks, power and economy with a T700 and 3.5:1 rear end. With the price of gas down here, twice the price what you pay in the US, and given the fact that I drive my cars it was the logical solution for me, horses for courses they say. An added plus is that you don't have to synchronize or tune each carb to get the system running correctly. Starts first time every time and the hidden ECM is easily programmable. Comes with base map program so tune to your requirements.

My system came with 97's, pump, ECM. I even added the fuel on demand component to make it more economical. No external choke assemblies on centre 2 assemblies though. Here are my Faux 97's on my 6x2 manifolds and Holley 94's (As an example) on an engine. Wire showing at back on manifold is throttle position sensor (TPS)

I believe these are the old MoonEyes products that were marketed years ago. A lot of reasons exist why companies go out of business despite having quality products, economic downturn, bad timing, supply and demand issues and bad management to name a few.

I have a friend who casts up finned Buick brake drums, backing plates, scoops etc. It is really a niche market and a hobby for him. He won't retire on the proceeds however he enjoys it and people like his quality products. Sells by word of mouth, no advertising.

 

I wouldn't presume to advise you what to do but I would like to comment on a few points that no one else has mentioned. Throttle body injection like this has very little more to offer than a carburettor. Sure, OEMs used it for a couple of years to meet increasingly tough emissions laws while they got their multipoint injection systems developed but it was never more than a stop-gap. It is better than a carb in that it can shut the fuel off completely on overrun, reducing fuel consumption and emissions a little, and it should be more reliable than a carb with no float system to give trouble but it suffers from unequal fuel distribution just like carbs do and, for inexperienced people, it's harder to tune. I see some very ingenious hidden throttle body injection systems on the H.A.M.B, some with beautiful workmanship, but it's clear from the design that they will never run better than a bad carburettor so I wonder, what's the point?
Converting a carburettor car to any kind of EFI is a big job. You need an EFI fuel pump, a different pickup arrangement in the fuel tank, a pressure regulator, usually a fuel return line and a whole mess of wiring, not to mention an on-board computer. For most people, doing all this to get throttle body injection is hardly worth the trouble.
If you want the performance, economy, driveability and low emissions that EFI can offer, do it right and use a multipoint system. This gives two big advantages over a throttle body system. First, it delivers an equal amount of fuel to each cylinder so none of them get too much or too little. Second, the manifold flows only air, not fuel, so it can be designed for optimum airflow with no need to compromise the design to prevent puddles of fuel from forming. It also allows the manifold runners to be made equal and optimum length for maximum torque in a chosen rev range (tuned port injection). Take a look at the engine in your modern car to see how an efficient EFI system is done. If you don't like the look of that maybe you should stick with carbs or do what Vergil has done (see his posts on the flathead EFI thread). He has used one injector per cylinder, mounted in the right place so it squirts at the back of the valve, but used carburettors as throttle bodies to retain a traditional look. It probably doesn't run quite as well as a proper tuned port system but it will be way better than any throttle body injection can be. Vergil's setup is on a flathead but there's no reason why the same principle couldn't be applied to any engine by mounting individual injectors in the manifold runners. It might not be possible to hide them so you might have to ask yourself "Do I want my engine to look good or run well?"
If you are interested in seeing my own version of tuned port multipoint injection on a flathead V8, see my posts on the flathead EFI thread.

 

Yes, IF you can make it look right. The only reason to make a throttlebody look like a 97 is to pass it as a 97. If you can't finish the materials to pass as the real deal at 10 feet, don't bother.

There are plenty of suppliers for the wiring, ecu and programming. Market to them, not us.

 

How is the t-body project coming?
I would be interested in buying some.
Have you seen these 97 efi t-bodies?....
http://www.autotrendefi.com/efi_97.html

 

Didn't Moon do that? I seem to remember the R&C editor installing one in that project RP he built several years ago.

 

It would just be something of beauty that I would drool over and never be able to afford in this economy

 

I believe Mooneyes tried to market these a few years back. Dont know if they still sell them.

 

I have the RetroTek (formerly Moonjection) 8 deuce setup on my 392/'51 Ford


It is not exactly traditional, but looks pretty traditional at first glance, and a lot of old car guys still don't recognize it as efi after looking at it for a while.

It took a while to get it running good but the biggest problem is too much air flow. With 8 units a single butterfly and injector would be sufficient. A lower flow efi throttle body unit with a single injector would be preferable for the hot rodders among us that like the look of too much carburation! I only need 10% throttle opening to get 4000 RPMs with 16 injectors and 16 butterfly openings.

i mostly keep the hood shut, but the front 2 air cleaners stick out a bit.

 

jaspittman,
what the heck are you running these on that need a 50 lb injector????

 

I believe the throttle bodies are already available aftermarket, in iron and aluminum.

Casting the main body of a large logo 97 with no guts to improve airflow would be relatively simple, but I would want at least an LZ sized one (there are some odd makes that used bigger Strombergs, but that would mean making the whole thing ).

Cool concept though.

 

Sounds like it would work better if it was desgined as a TBI type unit.

 

It's all about marketing..look at Subway..it damn sure ain't their food.

 

Here's the Mooneyes unit on my Model A engine. Worked great here in the mountains. Replaced it with a pair of new 97's as the F.A.S.T hill climb rules banned aftermarket EFI

 

Not to change the subject, but what the world really needs from mechanical engineers is a 100 SHP turbine with a 48 volt electric motor that has a GM bolt pattern for bellhousing or automatic, for less than $2k.

 

I would like some Stromberg 97 t-bodies without injectors...just for airflow, to mount on a custom intake with hidden common rail injectors.

 

Yup changing the subject-- makes a much sense though--there was a guy locally on the news that bolted up what you describe into a mizzerboochee eclypse and drives it to work!

 

uhhh, technically this would be classified as a mpfi and Not a tbi, its got the same problems as a tbi--runner wall wetting-- but the injectors are DOWNSTREAM of the throttle plates--- AND are port injection injectors instead of BIG Fat tbi injectors. Moon cross ram Weber side draft types are also port injection-- and are a better design even though the injectors are 10 inches away from the valves like this--only--its a strait 10 "shot to the valves--instead of a old funky carb manifold with all the right turns.

I like the idea and there are LOTS of Kids out there that take to programmable engine management second nature -unlike the average
H A M B guy. I am on the efi diy forum --the gm section. We are all junkyard dogs and shunn Mc megasquirt, I dont know of any ready to run assembled megasquirt system for under $500 especially with a ready made engine harness.

and yea --The economy, looks like "retroteckspeed" has also succomed to no-go---- or changed their name to "Autotrend efi", these companies seemed to try to see how expensive they could make it from the get-go, that Might work in a boom time with a complete ready to go system, The fast holley 4 barrel replacement and others like them, I could not afford, perhaps some with a line of credit and no conscience would........

http://autotrendefi.com/efi_97.html

 

looks like autotrend knocked off the retroteck idea-- which AINT hard to do a better version of by far,, look at the HOkey ass intake pan adadtor for the SBC setup in this rods and custom article

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/135_0406_electronic_fuel_injection/index.html
this has to be the stupidest ---most pretensious ---peice of junk I ever saw in a hotrod magazine
but autotrend seemed how to make it a GOOD BIT MORE $$

 

My thoughts exactly. Twin 19 lbs would work great.
Jim at www.lindertech.com

 

So did anything eventuate from this thread, 4 x 97 stromberg TB's would be cool on top of my 671 blower and I could use 2 x vintage speed 4bl-stromberg adapters, for a very simple conversion....... Please whats the update

 

Very interested in this concept, has anything ever come of it?