Maybe you missed my point. The "simple" part was sarcasim. If your too lazy to write a question that can be understood by the people with the information you want, then they might be a little hesitent to spend the time (in some cases hours, if you type with two fingers like I do) to write up an explaination of a complicated process.
1st, sorry for grave digging. But this was the thread that best answered my questions. I just brought my 64 impala home and trying to get started. Do I need to brace the car inside if I'm replacing floor pans, braces and inner rocker panels ? Also will weld through primer be a good idea inside the braces, floors where braces go and inside of rockers? Thanks in advance
People should not have to explain that they have a handicap or that English is their second language in order to receive an answer to their questions. If they have not made their question clear or more information is needed simply and courteously ask. Sarcasm at another's expense is rude. Now I understand that rudeness is worn like a badge of courage by some here on the HAMB however it is still rudeness. I have said before that if someone replied to anyone at an event or car club meeting like some do here they might get a mouth full of fist or at least they would be avoided by many of the more civil old car enthusiast. I have had many friends express that they do not participate in the HAMB because or the bad banter that takes place here. That is a shame because they are often the very ones who have the expertise to help others with less experience. I think that this discussion is the result of an innocent dig getting out of control and not the result of any real negative intent. Anyway I have seen new users turned off by those who are sometimes less sensitive than they would be. I tell people that my wife told me that I was not sensitive enough. So now when she asks me to take out the trash I cry. Dick
Im on other forums that have actions / attitude twards newbs , trolls and dumb asses. But it's just the Interwebz. If I can get the one or two answers I need by waiting through all the b.s. then I wait. I know there is help on here
i used a plasma cutter on my last floor man that was nice to get out.bent the panels on a little 3 foot brake from harbor freight. not bad job. guy down the street from me builds dragsters he has a kid working for him who is a sheet metal genius. wow the job he does is great. anyway just take your time and start small you should do ok.
I vote yes on the bracing. Better safe than sorry. I am replacing a full floor in a car for a customer. Needs everything. Even the lower half of the a pillars. That and some hack ruined the trunk by filling in the spare tie well with galvanized sheet. If I had not braced this before starting, I can think of a hundred ways that it would have ruined this car. Good luck. PM for help if needed. I always do.
the need to brace would depend on how bad the car is now and how you go about replacing parts, some pics posted would allow for a real answer.
I plan on cutting the floor out, with braces, close to the rockers. Trying to keep the prices big enough to use as "patterns". As for the rockers, I'm not sure. I know I want to leave some, a 1/2" if that, of floor braces. And cut in big patterns agian. I will have to look when I get there. Unless someone know a better way. Is it a bad idea to reuse the orig braces if I can ? Its a 64 2 door impala HT. I already have the two halves of the floor from toe board to the rear seat pan. And 3 of the braces. The awsome patch job
Curious to know the answer to this myself. I'll have to replace the rockers on both sides of my '52 chev and had thought about the need for bracing, I suppose it's better to be safe than sorry. Has anybody got photo's or hints for how best to brace the car?
i just replaced the passengers inner rocker on a 64 last year, also part of the brace that goes under the seat front, heres a couple pics of the inner rocker the way it came and how i rebuilt it to fit. also as you can see there is and inner, middle and outer rocker, i only used the front half of the inner rocker, patched the inner rocker, cut the brace and only used what was needed and made the patch for the floor pan myself.
I have seen it done by making a "V" staring at the door latch and running to each hinge and also "X" braces from b piller to b pillar. I just don't know how that will work with floor pans and still being on the frame ? I brought a old thread alive, so I could do the respectable thing on a new forum, other than posting a new thread and wasting that thread to be bashed by "newby" and "use the searh button" and other crap. I have done searching and read threads also. But it still had good info and is getting more. Don't get me wrong I am not on my high horse or anything like that, but it all about learning and I'm not the only one learning in this thread. Budd That is what I needed. So you did reuse your factory braces ? And are those bought or built rockers
Hot Rod magazine offered a series of CD's a few years ago. The first one was free, and it covered this subject. I already gave mine away, somebody on the HAMB must have a copy to let you check out.
Bigpokie, With as much of the floor pan as you have cut out, I think I would at least do some bracing to maintain the location of that front door post. Just for precaution. Or put a lot of reference marks with measurements to other reference marks from all directions. With the body still on the frame, bracing is not as necessary as if the body was off the frame. I have rebuilt a lot of body & cab structures and usually don't brace the ones i do anymore, unless they are very bad. For me, if the doors still open and close correctly and the door gaps are uniform and there is major rust damage, I probably would do a simple brace across the door opening and across to the other side. Bracing makes it a lot harder to work inside the car. Often by the time the floors and rockers are rotted out, the doors don't open and close nicely anymore, so corrections will need to be made anyway. Measurements are the bare necessities. When its all done, the doors need to function and uniform gaps are a nice addition. If you do not brace the car, careful alignment measuring points (many, in all directions) that will be easy to access as the work progresses are important. Its always a good idea to check the door fit and alignment before everything is welded solid, its a lot easier to cut a few spotwelds then it is to cut apart something all welded up. If you weld that rocker in 1/8" off, up or down,or in or out at either end, the door opening gaps and proper adjustment will be a nightmare. Also, keep in mind, the door posts, rockers, and braces support the floor, not the other way around. As far as reusing brackets or other parts, for me, that depends on their condition. I have to be able to clean the reused parts to smooth shiny metal, nearly the original thickness, or I will replace it. Pits hold rust, putting rusty metal against new metal will quicken the rusting of the new metal (and make welding a pita), regardless of how it was treated afterwords. This is way too much work to have to redo it in a couple years because you put rusty metal against the new metal. If the condition of the metal is the least bit questionable, I'd rather replace it now then later. Another thing i do is if I cut a single piece of steel, it gets welded solid, but if I cut a factory joint that was spot welded, I will plug the new metal together rather then weld it solid. For instance, all the rockers I've ever seen have been spotwelded together, when I build or install new rockers, I drill holes in the outside skin and plug weld the panels together by welding the drilled holes closed. Floor pans cut in the middle were originally 1 piece so the seam gets welded all the way across the joint. Floor pans are spot welded to the rockers, I drill plug weld the new pans to the new rockers ( and plug the pan to the bracing as well). I personally don't like weld through primmer and do not use it. I will seam seal both sides of a weld seam. If your welder is a little small 110 volt unit, weld through primmer tends to cause welds to not make good penetration. I've been patching floor boards and truck cabs for road driven vehicles (not restorations, vehicles used in the real world) for a living the past 16 years. Your results may vary. Gene
This is really funny. I learned my lesson today. In the future I will read the start dates of these threads. I was trying not to offend any one who came down on the one who made mistakes in their thread. Probably none of them will ever read what was posted today anyway. The joke is on me and maybe others who thought that this was an ongoing current thread. I always hope that this forum will become more civil and there by more user friendly. Anyway I like to stir up old threads from time to time to get fresh or new prospectives and information. I have treated the HAMB more as an information source than a Club. However I am beginning to change that view. Last year I went down to meet some San Diego HAMBers and had a great time. I was the only old man in the group. I suspect that when this forum started there being only a few members it was possible to know everyone and it was then necessary for new members to introduce themselves. From time to time I see someone just jump right in and ask a question without any introduction. They are sometimes rudely informed about the Introduction Rule and their question goes unanswered until someone takes pity on them and offers some answers. I would rather see the answers given and then have them asked to introduce themselves. Some of them probably are turned off by the initial rebuff a go somewhere else for the answers that they want. Not ever seeing the final answers given by more moderate members. Some would say good riddance if they cant take the heat. These are sometimes the same ones who used to Haze new members of their organizations when they were young. The problem with that is that we all have our areas of expertise and some of those might ask a simple question about something outside of their area of knowledge. If they are turned off to the HAMB and take their expertise with them when the door hits them in the behind we are all the losers. Dick
no need to apologize. just no need for people to jump on the newb bandwagon for asking a decent question. 50dodge, you you said rocker panels were you talking about the inner or outer ? the outers are good , its the inners that are bad for me.
I suspect by the time you get your inner rocker rusty metal cut off the outer rockers, your going to find the outer rockers have pin holes and thin metal in the bottom 1/2 of the height. Inner and outer rockers form a box like shape, dirt, water, and critters that made nests got in there and the combination of junk has built up to really hold the moisture in the box. The moisture rotted out the metal with the thinner material showing the rot out first. Usually the inner rockers are a slightly thinner gauge steel then the outer rockers were. Once you get it apart, you may actually find there were originally 3 vertical panels forming the rockers! Its not unheard of for the rockers to be made from 3 pieces of metal, the formed outer rocker, a straight center piece, and a formed inner rocker (the mid 60s Mustang converts had 4 piece rockers). Often the center piece is nearly gone and most replacement suppliers do not offer the center piece. The rockers are formed with the individual pieces (2 or 3) spot welded together to form an assembly then the door posts are often spot welded to the top of the rocker assembly. Floor bracing usually spot welds to the inner rocker part, and the floor pan may spot weld to either the inner or the outer rocker piece (or both), usually at the top of the rocker assembly, but sometimes to the bottom of the rocker assembly. Past experience tells me if either the inner or outer rocker is rusted through, the other section is often not far behind. The biggest area of concern is at the spot welds at the bottom where the two (or 3) sections of the rocker assembly are connected. There have been times when only an inner or an outer rocker have rusted through and the other piece is still useable, but most of the time, if one part is bad, the other part is bad or very close to being bad. Like I said earlier, I'd rather do this only once. When you get your rocker apart, clean out any loose crap laying inside the cavity. If the outer is OK once the crap has been cleaned out, and the bottom flange is good enough to weld to, go for it. Gene
thats awsome info. that is what i needed. do be too shocked if i pm you when i cut into it. thanks gene
posting lots of pictures as you go along is what i'm waiting for because you can never have too many pictures. keep posting dude!
Feel free to PM me if you need more info, or you could post the question here. I'm on most nights (at least 4or5 nights a week) and try to go over all the posts for the day. Might be best to PM and post here, then I'll see it for sure. Gene
BACK in the day we get old street signs and use oxy &ascell. torch when you didnt have welding rod we use COAT HANGERS
There s a lot of interesting information here . On my OT 1966car , there s a hole because of rust on just one place in the outer rocker . So I already know there may be more damages inside . Of course, I plan to cut and weld a patch , but I d prefer not to remove the whole part ( between the front and rear wheel , it s a 4 doors car .. ) and rebuild everything from scratch . No one makes patches for this car and my skills are not great enough yet to built it . Is there any usefull treatment to apply to avoid rust to keep on going ? I know there s many topics about rust removal , but not so many about what to do in such a case . Eastwood has a can product dedicaced to this specific case . Is it worth ? Thanks .
I always wondered . Maybe it s time to ask Why coat hangers ? Why not regular steel wire ? Is coat hangers steel stronger ?
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