History Auto racing 1894-1942

wow, some one is selling the ex-Chris Egsgard hauler/racer combo.

 

To add to the mix on the Monroe/Frontenac racers I am one of those guys that don't believe there really was a Monroe, in its purest sense. In my book they were all Frontenacs but some were labeled Monroe because virtually all of the development money came from the Monroe firm and backers. By labeling them as separate makes, it allowed them to field more cars which is what the public and promoters wanted, no matter what they said.

Most of the pictures that I have seen show the flower pedal radiator on both cars and painting the front was more of an occasional thing for a particular race I believe. LL Corum had a Frontenac as did Bennett Hill and Milton and Art Klein and Sarles and a few others I am forgetting and they all had flower pedal radiator shells in the 1920/1921 era. The same goes for the Monroes.

If my memory serves me pictures of the cars without the distinctive radiator are somewhat rare. Maybe not so rare after 1922 but I would have to do some soul searching on that score.

Wish there was one of the 1916 cars or the 1920/1921 cars in completed form in existence. A real shame as they were pretty good cars and they were the first purpose built American racer to win at Indy and they won back to back. Not too shabby. Duesenberg and Miller steal all the oxygen in the room but Frontenac deserves some real kudos in my book-Jim

 

Jim,

Same idea as Durant's "Baby Chevrolet" Miller?

 

True in a sense as you have to keep the sponsors in mind at all times. With Durant he had to distinguish this Miller "Chevrolet" from his Wisconsin "Chevrolet" from 1919.-Jim

 

Monroe=Frontenac
Chevrolet=Stutz
Chevrolet=Miller
Meteor=Duesenberg
ReVere=Duesenberg
Durant=Miller
HCS=Miller
Studebaker=Miller
Locomobile=Miller
Erskine=Miller
Marmon=Cooper

The list goes on...

 

OldRacingCars.Com site is a must for any discerning motoracing connoisseur.

 

The greatH. Rougier, winner of the A.C.F. Touring Car Grand Prix held at Strasbourg in 1922, with the Voisin 3C Sport nr 12, similar to the one with nr 17 shown on the prevous post.

 

I read a 1924 article that states that the Gaston Chevrolet "death" car was purchased by Paul Clancy from the Chevrolet estate, and had set an unofficial track record at Winchester Indiana (28 seconds).

Additionally I found a 1927 article that states the 1920 Indy Winner was purchased by Les "Bugs" Allen. It was raced in the central west, and then bought by Emory Colllins, who campaigned it successfully on the east coast.

Who knows if either of these articles were accurate.

I believe 7 or 8 machines were built by the Chevrolet brothers. By 1922 they were no longer competitive, and probably sold off. It would be nice if just one survived the scrap metal drives of WW2.


Frontenac in the Barn?

 

Zig Zag I don't doubt what you say. I believe many of the Frontenacs were purchased and raced for years on second tier circuits and pretty much used up. They were good race cars. The Ben Gotoff scrap book shows that some of the "good" cars were used on second tier circuits which only makes sense. I believe three partial 1920 engines survived but beyond that I am not sure. Too bad. Nice sketch on the 1920 winner

Nice pics Ratamahata. Wonder what the story is on the Studebaker-Jim

 

More 1922 Strasbourg


Wagner............

 

Goux + vizcaya

 

Goux..............

 

Jean Chassagne...........Sunbeam

 

Seagrave

 

French G.P. held at Strasbourg on July 16, 1922

Apparently, Don Pedro Jose Isidro Manuel Ricardo Mones Maury, Marques de Casa Maury, on Bugatti T30, likely chassis 4004. 5th OA. This same car, with a conventional body, ran later on at the Indy 500, driven by another aristocrat driver. Anybody guess who?

 

I was wondering about the MG.

Count Louis Zborowski, 1923.

 

Bertrand de Cystria?

 

Bob, between this thread, the cyclecar thread, Old Motor, Hemming's, and Pre-War you guys use up a lot of my time. At least that's what my wife says. Thanks to all for your effort.

 

Paul Clancy established the 28" Winchester record in a Miller, very likely the Golden Submarine - that was on July 4, 1923. The first time he drove a Fronty was in 1924, but I always figured it was one of the Harry Heinle cars - he may have driven a number of different Fronties, however. The only race where I have him specifically in a 183 CID Frontenac is July 27 in 1924 at Roby Speedway, which he won, setting a record for 20 miles.

However, there was also one William Clancy from Chicago (like Paul) who owned a 183 CID Frontenac in 1926 at least - Louis Schneider won another Roby Speedway race in that car, a 100-miler September 19, and also drove it at Milwaukee the next week, probably many times more. I feel pretty confident that the two men were related, and the car one and the same. I have never seen any history claims for that one, although that doesn't mean a thing. May well have been the Beverly Hills car!

Frontenacs are especially difficult to track, because of the plethora of Fronty Fords that began to appear at pretty much the same instant the old 183s and 300s were sold off to the dirt track racers. Few of them claimed any history, and of those many were phoney anyway. For the record, I have:

an ex-Mulford Fronty used by Milt McBride (NY) 1922
ex-Resta by Howdy Wilcox (IN) 1923
the 1920 Indy winner plus another 183 CID Monroe owned by E. B. Brown & R. J. Barbin (IN) 1923
an unspecified 300 CID racer by Fred Horey/Alex Sloan (MN) 1924
an unspecified Indy Fronty used by Fuzzy Davidson (IN or IL) 1924
an unspecified 300 CID by Cliff Woodbury (IL) 1924 & '25 (said to have been in use since '21)
the 1920 winner again by Lou Disbrow/Alex Sloan (MN) 1924
an unspecified 300 CID by Les Allen (IL) 1924 & '25
an unspecified 183 CID by Paul Clancy (IL) 1924
an unspecified 183 CID by Chance Kinsley (IN) 1924 (possibly the same as Davidson)
the 1921 winner by Herb Jones (IN) 1924 (but fitted with a 4-cylinder engine??)
an unspecified 183 CID by Wilbur Shaw (IN) 1925
ex-Milton 183 CID by Cliff Bergere (CA) 1925
unspecified 183 CID owned by Harry Heinle (IL), driven by D. D. Morris in 1926, and allegedly by Al Watters in '25
unspecified 183 CID owned by Harry Heinle (IL), driven by Billy Arnold in 1926, and allegedly by Kinsley in '25
the 1921 winner by Shorty Cantlon (MI) 1926
unspecified 300 CID by John Watters (MO - unrelated to Al Watters I believe) 1926
unspecified 183 CID owned by William Clancy (IL), driven by Louis Schneider in 1926
unspecified 183 CID by Cantlon in 1927
unspecified 183 CID by Arnold in 1927
unspecified 183 CID by Allen in 1928
ex-Arthur Chevrolet Indy Fronty by Dick Lang (NJ) 1928

This list is by no means exclusive, and some of the cars listed may actually have been the same. Bear in mind that claims may refer to engine and/or chassis alone, perhaps only to other parts. Also, "claims are claims" - some of them may be true, others BS.

As for the 1920 winner going to Bugs Allen, then to Emory Collins: I don't believe Collins owned any of "his" cars before 1931 or '29 the earliest; like many others he drove several cars owned by Alex Sloan, according to availability. His first own car appears to have been a Fronty Ford, then a Cragar and then his first Miller/Offy in 1936. Sloan, on the other hand, claimed to have the 1920 winner in 1924, long before Allen had a 183.

 

Michael thanks for the post, you have assembled some terrific information.


Percy Ford - Elgin 1920 (Library of Congress)