Projects OT: Dodge HT413

wtf?

 

What do you mean, wtf? That is what the "dash" numbers mean that are at the end of the displacement part of the casting on the block. The higher the number, the higher the nickel content of the block. Real simple.

 

First of all, here is a comparision of a 361-413 truck manifold and a 440 truck manifold





The 361 and 413 truck motors used the reverse rotation gear drive cams, and the 440 truck motor used a double roller timing chain and standard rotation cam.

You are thinking of the 392 Hemi marine engines that were used in pairs with one rotating clockwise and one counterclockwise, using standard cams in both with the counterclockwise motor having the gear drive to reverse the cam.

 

the dash number's in the block casting do not refer to nickel content but rather recores on the mold

http://440source.com/partnumberinfo.htm:

"While we are on the subject of casting numbers, often there will be what is known as a "tooling revision number" or a "dash number" after the casting number. A 1968 440 block, for instance, might read 2536430-12, or sometimes there will just be a space, such as 2536430 12, or sometimes 253643012. While 2536430 would be the casting number, the 12 would be the tooling revision number, which indicates how many times the tooling (core molds) have been reconditioned back to the proper specifications or modified to include improvements. After so many "pours" the tooling gets worn and needs to be reshaped or reconditioned. So theoretically, higher numbers will be later dates and have any casting improvements incorporated into them. The only problem with this theory is that engines were produced in such volume that many many different sets of tooling were used concurrently to meet the necessary output. So while some may have lasted for quite a while, (in which case you will find later dates with earlier revisions) some got worn quickly or damaged and needed to be revised after a short time. So while in some cases, parts with later numbers may include some improvements the earlier parts may not have, on a practical level, it means nothing as far as the quality of the piece. In other words, don't waste your time looking for an early or late tooling revision number. Blocks, heads, water pump housings and many other cast parts have revision numbers as well."

The confusion here lies with what the engines were called by Dodge. A 413-2 is a 2 barrel, 413-3 is a four barrel.

 

Not familiar with the Dodge MHC but GM used prop shaft parking brakes at least into the late 90s on MHCs and the heavier step van chassis. I'm sure the reason for this is because these chassis had rear disc brakes making it difficult to add a parking brake system to the rear axle. Plus it saved about a quarter mile of cables needed to connect everything from the front to rear of the vehicle.

I'm guessing that Dodge followed this same logic.

 

Something I find interesting;

The 413 had 4.1875" bore and stroke 3.750"
the 383 had 4.2500" bore and stroke 3.375"

 

SO the BIGGEST outward apperance difference between the two
is the exht manifold? Right? SO if we just look for the manifold with
6 holes straight across from each other, we'll be in the money.

Jeff

 

Indeed quite interesting. The Dragmaster guys noticed this in 1962. They took a 413 crank, cut the mains and installed it into a 383 block to build the first 426, with much success. It was called the Dragmaster Dart. Chrysler followed a few months later with the 426, which was just a 4.25 bore on a 413.

 

I don't buy either explanation for the dash numbers.

I do find it interesting that Dodge refers to the -3 engines (of all displacements) as "premium" engines, and offered them only in the heaver trucks (300 and higher series). -1 engines were standard engines.

 

Never heard about bad castings with Rv or industrial applicatons of these engines. I had a buddy who was a chevy guy (who doesn't that had an old beat Dodge dump truck with a 413 in it. He never did anything to it for preventative maint. Called me one day complaining about his clutch or flywheel being glazed or warped. he drove the truck, hard, all summer long, bitching the whole time. I finally went down to fix it for him and found the crank had broken in two. The thing still ran, and ran well except pulling from a stop. He was blown away. I told him "try that with a SBC"!

 

WOW, I didn't even notice the lower pad. I guess I was looking for the cid only.

I'll clean it off and get a new pic this weekend.

One other question: I know that the blocks are supposed to be the same for the 413 and 440 but will the wall thickness be too thin to bore my 413 to the 440 bore?

 

I don't know what the rest of the pad will tell you that we haven't figured out. Its a motorhome 413 from the early to mid 70s.

You'll find out if it has six-pack rods when you open it up.

For the record, all 413-426-440 mopars are at least 4 barrels. The 383RB was the only RB motor to have a 2 barrel, but that was a one or two year historical footnote.

Don't bore it to 440. Bad idea for a number of reasons, namely that the block will be really thin afterwards and won't really make any more power.

 

From what I've read, there is additional info regarding any repair work that is coded onto the pad just below the "HT413".

 

Here's the rest. Any idea as to what the "7 13 2" mean?

 

July 13th 1972... I bet the casting date on the block is maybe May or June of 72.

 

OK, next question(s): The hu-monstrous water pump bolts directly to the front of the heads. Does the block still have the provisions for the normal water pump? Will I need to get a different timing cover or anything to use the normal pump and that'll have a different suction hook up than the coffe can sized lower hose?

 

Yes, the block will be the same.

The timing chain cover will likely be the same as a car motor too, but if not, they are easy to score.

the pre-67 or 68 waterpumps look the best...

 

kind of an old thread but since my power plant is the same motor ill share my knowledge.
first off 413 was the only industrial motor. what made it an industrial has already been stated the heads are useless... same with the intake. there durable but for making power might as well use em for a door stop. finding pistons is pricey (flat topped cast lumps cost me $500) I think the reason they used the smaller bore is so there are bigger water jackets in the block but that's just a guess. the crank is a forged steel unit. If I had to do it all over again i would have used a 440 truck engine for the basis of my build.

 

The 413 was NOT the only industrial B/RB. The 361B was also used as such from the mid-'60s through 1976.

 

Blowing the dust off of this one...as it turned out, after sitting in the field for all those years, some water had leaked into Cyl #6 and the piston is locked up in the cylinder. Therefore, I was planning to scrap it since slugs are so expensive. However, before I do, I want to save the rods if they are 6-pack rods. How can I verify that they are 6-pack rods?

Thanks.

Mike

 

Nevermind...I found the 440 Source chart with the ID numbers. My bigger question is if the rods or anything else are worth saving?

Mike

 

Someone on here probably has used parts that they could help you out with. That is if the block is not too buggered up or cracked from the water. I love my stock 413 in my 64 new yorker best running motor i own.

 

I've read this post with interest as a guy I just met has a couple of 413's in a house boat. Other than the reverse rotation, are there any differences to the marine version to make them undesirable? It is a freshwater boat, so I'm not as worried about galvanic corrosion as I would be if it was in saltwater. In short, are the marine and industrial versions the same?

 

With a little work, those rods can be used in the 392 Hemi. They're a tad shorter, but are quite a bit beefier than the stock 392 rod. So yes, they're worth something.