Projects Does your T5 sound like this?

alrighty,

this sucker has about idono certainly under 40 miles on it.
i have had tons of vibe and noise issues, so i pulled it again.

NEW, from modern drivline. its a T5Z with the sebring 5th kit, and a reinforcement plate for the cluster gear.

i had a lot of clatter at low idle, but some said that was normal. i sorta figured that was true especially since i am running it behind a 4 cylinder with a lopey cam and a lightened flywheel.

i just want to be sure its good to go before i go and really beat on the thing.

so i pulled it, and.............................

updated videos






thanks guys

 

That looks like the same model I have for my flathead and it doesn't make any sound like that. The deciding factor in buying it was that it was quiet when I turned the input shaft in neutral and all gears.

 

i updated the videos, a friend is bringing a t5 by to compare them side by side

i really dont know what to think, i guess i am going to have to tear it down

i gotta say, i am pretty bummed after paying 2k for this thing.

 

My first call would be to the guys at Modern Driveline. When I blew up my TKO they were about the only guys that would talk to me, as in real tech support.

I'm not that familiar with the T5z but most every T5 and TKO I have dealt with had some free play in the input like that. Looks as if yours shifts very nicely.

 

i talked to them, paul said it was louder than the t5 he had infont of him, but he said they do that to some extent.

its over 60 days old, though so no warranty. i will have to pay for shipping both ways, and will also have to pay for labor if they "dont find anything wrong"

i sent the two new videos to bruce, i'll see what i hear back.

it feels really sloppy to me as far as lash

 

My junk yard T5 was quieter than that, For 2 grand, I would expect more. How is the end play?

 

Paul was the guy I worked with.

Knowing a little bit about how these go together, excessive lash would have to indicate worn bearings, improper thrust set up or a broken case. I would be curious enough to pull the tail shaft and pop the top and have a look. These things are not all that complicated.

Here, check this out TTC T5 service manual

If you have a dial indicator, it would be real helpful in diagnosing what's up.

I assume you checked the run-out between your flywheel and the transmission input shaft register. I have seen a few of these out of alignment because of a miss-machined bell housing or a crank shaft centerline out of place due to excessive main boring. More than 2.5 thousandths of an inch will tear the ass out of the input shaft bearing on your trans.

How to measure bellhousing runout

 

yup, i expect more as well.
by endplay do you jsut mean the in/out play.
if so, it hardly has any of that.

 

It could always be worse!

 

yea, thats what i am afraid of working towards

 

take the top plate off and see whats goin on. you may see something obvious.

 

i will, however, i am tired of my life being consumed by this stuff lol.
its not a hobby when you are a slave to it.

 

runout was nearly dead on, i recorded what i found somewhere i will post it when i find it.

 

2K?!!!! I find used @ $750.00 and new @ $1250.00 (5.0 mustang websites) what is the difference from what you have?

 

The new T5z is an updated version of the old T5.

http://www.moderndriveline.com/Technical_Bits/t5_history.htm

 

"cobra" roller bearings, sebring set, cluster gear plate.

mine would be third from the bottom here, but had the sebring set, and plate added.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/Detailed/349.shtml

in addition modern driveline was supposed to be the place to get a t5.
i wanted something i could rely on, and just throw in and trust, lol.
at the time, time was worth more than the money kind of thing, but it sorta worked out just eating both those things. arg
trust me, i did not really want to throw that much money away.

something to be said about proven jy garbage.

still, im not sure if the thing is ok or not, maybe that gearset just makes more noise, the 5th certainly has less teeth for one. i dono.

that is the factory on the right, and sebring on the left.

hopefully i just answered my own question to some extent

my buddy forgot to bring his t5 over so i did not get to feel that one, but he felt the z i have here and said his had less play

 

You Paid $2000 for a used transmission?

 

no, it was new.

the trans is a new aftermarket cobra T5Z built in mexico, modern driveline pulls it apart, modifies it for the SEBRING SET and installs the SUPPORT PLATE and it also came with a mcleod short throw

i figure i was better off trusting them to do that work than i, and it was in the best interest of time. i know it was expensive as far as t5s go. shhh


anybody know the acceptable amount of gear lash for these things?,
i did not see it in my pdf manual or find it on the net, i need to look at the one ELpolacko posted.
i wanted to check that with my dial indicator. if it falls within spec i should not have anything to worry about unless there is something blatantly obvious when i pull the top cover off.

thanks guys

 

i looked through both of those manuals and did not find any sort of spec

and...

here is an email back and fourth between me and bruce of modern driveline

Bruce:
Send it back and we can look at it, if there is something wrong we will let you know.

Me:
i would prefer to avoid shipping and labor charges, i already have a lot of money in it as is. i then have to worry about coming up with a box an packing it to insure it does not get damaged, or the input shaft bashed during shipping

what is the tolerance for gear lash on these? i can measure it with my dial indicator and let you know what i find.
if i pull the top cover and everything looks to be as it should, and gear lash is in spec, i wont be afraid to run it.
it may just be that with this gear set ( the z with the 2.95 first) it feels like there is a more lash, i sortof expect that with the sebring 5th since it has less teeth, and seemingly less of a helical cut, but im not sure i can say that about neutral and the rest.

thanks

Bruce:
I am not aware of a spec. Perhaps Tremec tech line can provide that for you. 800-401-9866

calling em now.


thats all for now, thanks guys.

 

bah, its too late, they are on eastern time. i will have to call back tomorrow

 

i am guessing they are just set by preload on the input shaft

 

sorry, just a noob if i should have known that

 

My TKO 600 didn't sound like that before it went into my Vette. It was a little more then 2K.................

 

I'm not aware of a specific lash spec. If everything is new, and there's no wear on the gear teeth, I wouldn't expect quite that much, but who knows? hecho en mexico, eh?

Except for 4th, everything goes through the cluster. 4th is straight through, but you can't disengage the cluster as it's meshed to the input. So a worn input gear or worn cluster could be the source of your excessive lash.

Pop the top & see what you see. If you're brave, you can pull the input (carefully, there are loose rollers in there) - you'll have to rotate it to get the cut out by the cluster gear. You may be able to see enough w/o pulling the gear (just the retainer) to see if it's excessively worn.

 

Wouldn't wrong clearance on the tappered gears on the main shaft cause slack and vibration? I had some issues with quality on my Mexican built Tremec T5Z stif 5th when new was told it needed to break in by Tremic support 3 weeks later it whent out like the linkage was disconected and I sent it back. They kept it a month and kept making excuses why it was my fault till I went to the Ford parts room I bought it at and had them call I had it back in two days under warranty. Six or seven runs later it jammed between second and third I just fixed it myself (bad sincro ring) added G force cluster gear support and 3/4 shift fork and it's been ok so fare maybe 50 3800 rpm launches etc. The shift fork is a great investment it made mine the best shifting t-5 i've seen.

 

I have 2, One in my Roadster and a spare. My spare tranny has slack, they have moving parts so it is normal. My spare which is used looks to have the same amount of play. Since the tranny is free, the noise sounds magnified.

$ 2000 is ALOT. I would send it back and let the shop look at it. If reputable, they know something is wrong. Warranty is a safety net. send him this link and let him be the judge. FYI....I payed 1000 for a rebuilt unit and 100 for my spare.

 

i will have to crate it, pay for shipping both ways, and labor.
am thinking i would rather tackle it myself, or find something local.

bruce does not seem all that willing to help or explain things, paul was decent to me.

 

[snark] ALOT [/snark]

Done amusing myself, ahem. Yeah, new shit costs a lot of money. Not that surprising really. I understand Matt's concerns here and since it's out of warranty, open that sucker up already!

(Traditional) Hotrodding 101, self sufficiency.

There isn't much in there that is going to jump out and bite you. It will do you good to have a look and take the mystery out of what's inside and you understand how it works. You will need a few hand tools, a dial indiator and some Anaerobic sealer with the activator or you can use RTV Silicone. I prefer the Anaerobic.

The following is taken from the Service Manual PDF, the sections I quoted are from the assembly side and not the tear down. Before you remove the tail shaft and top, you need to measure the input end play.

How to measure the main shaft end play:

In plain English, the input needs to have a slight amount of preload on it, about 3 Thousandths worth. There should not be any end play on the input shaft.

Procedure on how to measure the counter shaft end play:

In plain English, you should have 18 Thousandths of an inch of end play on the counter shaft.

So long as the end play on the input and cluster is in the correct range, there is nothing to be concerned with. All gears are going to have a certain amount of lash. It's necessary to have some to compensate for heat expansion.

Time to get dirty.

 

alright, lol i will open in up, i gotta clear a space in the house though, too much grinding, DAing, and so on going on the garage. i really was trying to avoid getting into it lol, as i just have so many dang projects going on here at once.

i will probably get to it some time tomorrow, i will call tremec today just to see what they say.

about the input shaft endplay, i am not sure that is my issue as the input shaft is solid and does not move along any axis, and it does not seem that is my issue.
isint preloading usually done for a used trans when anticipating that the bearing will seat a little bit. something along those lines.

i need to look through the manual again and see if i can figure out what would effect lash, although i have looked through it i have been lazy with it i admit, i just have so much stuff going on lately i really did not want to dig in to it. it will sink in more if i actually take a look in the thing. and yes, its not a complicated trans.

thanks guys, and i appreciate the help. i know this is not exactly traditional hotrodding and i appreciate everybody letting it slip.

 

Ok, I watched the videos. You just rocking the input shaft back and forth, not turning it completely? That is a normal noise, your just rocking the gears back and forth they have to have some movement, under a load they won't make any noise.

What are you worried about? A transmission won't vibrate on its own, a drive shaft, flywheel etc has to be out of balance. Is the pilot bearing the correct size for the input shaft? Is there sufficient travel for the drive shaft 1-1 1/2 inches in and out of back of trans. What fluid are you using?

There is no spec for gear to gear clearance on a T-5, if you spin the input shaft (more than 1 revolution) is it quiet and smooth?

Just some questions before you open it up and find nothing.