I'm building a 77 Ford truck for someone. It has a 47k mile 460 in it. He wants to wake it up a bit. What proven parts list have you found that work without rebuilding bottom end........cam, intake, carb, etc? I know lots of old racers used them. This is a street driven truck, but may be abused once in a while.
Early timing chain will wake it right up. Ford had to retard the cam in order to make emissions in the early 70s; the earlier timing set will advance the cam to where it should be.
The advance curve in the Duraspark distributer is lazy as well. Having it recurved would give you great bang for your buck.
What kind of power are you looking for? I've read that ported stock heads a good intake & carb, a cam and a timing chain to correct the 70's timing issue can lead to an easy 450-500 hp.
i think i read somewhere that a 69 timing chain from a lincoln will be pretty good. not 100 percent sure though. im probably wrong but i've had my moments where im right lol
Was the 460 the original engine, or was it swapped in? '68-'71 429 or 460 stock timing chain set, or a good DR set is the Ford Racing unit: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6268-B429/ For bolt-on stuff (as opposed to doing more extensive work), in the following order: 1) Improve the exhaust with headers and a decent system. 2) As noted the stock ignition curve is sluggish on most 460s. The Duraspark can be reworked, or you can buy one from a specialist like Reincarnation Automotive; or use a MSD/mallory/etc. 3) The Stealth is a very good intake, but it really likes a cam with a fairly high intake duration, around 235 deg. at .050, or more. Depending on what you want to do, a Performer or Performer RPM may be a better choice. The stock intake is very difficult to beat below about 3000 rpm, give or take. 4) A Holley 750 vac. secondary carburetor is possibly the best all-around choice for a mild 460 street engine. There are other choices. 5) Stock D3VE heads, which is possibly what this engine has, can only use cams with max lift of around .530-.540 before the retainers hit the guides. I generally don't like giving cam recommendations on the H.A.M.B. because of all the conflicting opinions, but you might consider the Comp 34-235-4 for a mild engine. Replace the valve springs (which will be shit by this time) with whatever the cam manufacturer recommends, and install them at the correct height. 5a) Depending on the cam you choose, and the cylinder heads, you may need to convert it to roller rockers. There are some good choices....and some bad ones. If you want to pull the heads and do a fresh valve job, you can grind out the Thermactor bumps and pick up an easy 15-20 hp or so. Stock smogger 460s suffer from three main evils: A) the retarded timing set; B) the sluggish ignition advance curve; C) the factory pistons are .060 down in the hole at TDC, or even more. You can fix A & B easily, and they will make a difference. C is a problem. This can mean compression as low as 7.7 or 7.8 to 1. One possible solution is to score a set of C8VE, C9VE, or D0VE (early) heads, which will raise the compression up into the low 9s with a stock late '70s short block...but, the piston is still "in the hole", which kills quench. It probably will require 93 octane at a minimum to run these heads, but it is a quick & dirty way to raise the compression.
460ford.com would be a great place to start. This here thread: http://www.460ford.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119213 It's a sticky, it is the first thing I would check out. Spells it out nice and simple like with years of experience/dyno results. Its what I used for my 429 build as well. Hope I helped some, Adam
Thanks, guys. Looking for basic upgrades without having to go inside the block. It is a smooth runner, no smoke, stock engine. I just picked it up for him, going to replicate a truck he had way back when, but it needs to be woken up. It has a 2.75 rear gear and C6 I think.
This wont be Hamb friendly but I would look at bolting on a Procharger kit. Pretty simple application for carb engines and would probably give you 100 HP out of the box. Wont really effect anything until you put your foot into it.
I used a Crower flat tappet cam of unknown specs. I just called and told them to send me the biggest flat tappet cam they had. Offy Port-O-Sonic single plane four barrel manifold. (Placed highest in HRM back to back tests) 1100 CFM Dominator and Mallory duel point. Idled rough but ran great.
Yeah your right. But I really loved that 460. It had enough inches (466) to have plenty of low end torque and was willing to wind if I wanted to. And cheap. Started with a '69 Lincoln that came with closed chamber heads and threaded studs. So that saved lots of money. And when you hammered it. What a rush.
I agree, the stock intake would be good for a truck with highway gears. The 74 and earlier ones will take a standard Holley. Heavy though.
The heads suck - D0ve heads or earlier would also make a big difference. I built a hot 460 for a o/t 2WD F-100. I sold the truck a few weeks ago - MAN was it fun to mash the gas. I miss it already. One option was to pull it and sell the truck as a roller, all the 4X4 guys wanted it for the body. I shoulda kept the motor. :/
The very common D3VE heads aren't that bad. They need some exhaust port cleanup, especially getting rid of the air injector bump, but otherwise are still a good head. Some random build notes I collected off the web. Might be something useful; Frugal 460 -Stock 8.0 to 1 compression sucks, 9 to 1 area is fine and on a well tuned combo will still run cheap gas with a matching cam. -Mild head work. (smart porting Scott J style) -Good carb. (750 Vac is nice for this) -Stock intake is OK, just need to adapt to a good carb or find one of the older Square bore intakes. -Aftermarket Straight up Timing Chain (OEM chain is retarded stock and kills hp) -Headers if possible or at least Dual 2 1/2" exhaust on the stock manifolds. -Duraspark Distributer is great just make sure you recurve it. (These motors run well with 20 deg initial and 36 total all in by 3000 RPM). A typical advance curve for a mild 460 would look something like this... 500 RPM / 0* 1000 RPM / 2 to 4* 1500 RPM / 8* 2000 RPM / 14* 2500 RPM / 20* 16 to 18 degrees intitial timing. Vacuum advance would normally be 10* @ 18" vacuum. For higher altitude I might add an extra 5 degrees. As I stated I can bring advance in faster but the amounts per rpm increments tested are more difficult to address. The above curve works very nicely on almost all BBF stuff I do. It varies some by application, C/R and performance levels. Combo #1. Ideal for a truck or full size car application. 429 or 460 short block. Factory passenger car conn rods.. C/R from 9.0 to 1 to 9.75 to 1 non ported D0VE-C iron heads edelbrock performer intake with holley 750 vac secondary carb Factory dura spark distributor 14 initial and 24 centrifugal for a total of 38 degrees timing. Comp dual energy cam 206 / 218 @ .050" lift. .497" / .502" lift on a 112 LSA. You can substitute the XE256 H in the comps extreme energy line. Just be carefull of C/R Factory exhaust manifolds with duals 2 1/4" and H pipe. 160 degree t-stat Dual snorkel air cleaner. Factory rail rockers converted to be adjustalbe. Test done with a 3 x 14" K&N aircleaner Combo will require 89 to 92 octane pump gas depending on C/R Chassis dyno numbers are 454 pound feet @ 1,500 RPM and 260 RWHP at 4,500 Ported heads are worth 20 HP as are headers. This is a high torque stump pulling combo. A 460 engine can use the next larger cam the XE262h I built this and drove it. It rocks... Combo 2 high performance street with a 4 speed or 2,500 stall convertor. 429 short block with 9.8 to 1 C/R dished pistons. Factory passenger conn rods. RPM aluminum cylinderhead castings non ported. RPM intake and holley 850 DP carb. Hooker 6115 supercomps for ford intermediate 70 to 71. 2 1/2" duals, 3" flow masters and 3" tail pipes. Factory duraspark distributor 14 initial and 24 centrifugal advance for a total advance of 38 degrees again. Timing specs vary by vehicle combo. Block off manifold heat cross over if needed. Comps Comps solid flat tappet custom grind cam, 284s intake lobe and 292s exhaust lobe. Cam specs are 236 / 248 @ .050" lift. .575" lift intake and .602" lift exhaust with 1.73 roller and ground on a 112LSA. comps pro magnum steel bodied rockers. Further testing indicates that 6 degrees of additional exhaust timing is fine. The XE274H is a good hydraulic substitute from the extreme energy line of cams. Combo will need pump premium when using a 160 degree t-stat. all tests done using the 3x14" K&N air cleaner. Torque numbers were 418 at 3,800 RPM and trap speed at 4,200 pounds indicates 414 RWHP at 5,600. This is 500 flywheel Hp or a tad better.Not bad for a budget rebuilder 429 with cast pistons. Ported RPMs are worth 30 HP or so.
Best intake by far for the 460,, about 750 cfm for street, 280-288 duration cam,, will work good for stick or automatic. Built 3 of these and had real happy customers.
So, I hear Edelbrock performer, Weiand stealth and Offy port o sonic from severl different sources. A local old time Ford guy reccommends a Holman Moody cam with a "police grind", the Offy intake and a 750 carb, he likes the Demon. Also looking at an HEI distributor. He also says to bump the rear end ratio into the mid 3s (it is 2.75 now). Advantages/disadvantages to either intake? This is going to be a driver. He wants it to sound good, and have the balls to do something when he gets on it, but mostly sensible driving.
Ol' Chevy, I have a '68 460 out of a Lincoln, 375HP. 480Ft lbs of torque from the factory, has the square intake to accept a Holley, screw-in studs, 11-1 comp. Complete motor together and was running good when pulled if you might be interested in doing a motor swap to save some time and money. I'm only about 20 miles from you. BobbyD
I saw a lot of posts in this thread saying the stock timing CHAIN retarded the valve timing, and I'm having a hard time comprehending how just the chain would do that. I assume that it is the timing chain AND gears that should be replaced, correct?
The crank gear keyway is relocated to retard cam timing on '71 up motors, thus reducing power and emissions. Most all production cars and trucks had this done in the early 70's.
So, what are we looking at? Stop by the shop sometime....Classic Speed and Custom, 4805 S.Tryon St. Down around back.
I take my cancer treatments (radiation) everyday at 11:45 at CMC, might swing by and see ya. I'll make ya a good deal on the motor, my moneys running out
I ran a re-worked Porto-Sonic on my FE, good intake, but wouldnt even consider it for a PU with highway gears. And I am usually "Mr. Aggressive". I would be inclined to use the stock cast iron spread bore intake and a Q-jet.
Exactly...but I didn't see much point in commenting, since the OP seemed only interested in that one post... The Port-O-Sonic was, at one time, just about the only game in town for a performance single 4bbl. 460. It's still a decent enough single-plane manifold for certain 460 applications; this isn't one of them. The way you've described this engine, with a stock short block except for the cam...I would only consider the stock intake, the Edelbrock Performer, or possibly the Performer RPM. You don't have enough compression (or, probably, intake duration, depending on the cam you choose) to effectively use a Stealth, which is a great intake when it's applied correctly. It will work- but it won't be the best choice. It has a ton of plenum and runner volume and works best with more intake duration as I mentioned earlier, or a bigger CI engine like a 509, 521, etc. So far as the Port-O-Sonic goes- it takes a lot of porting to get it to the level of a Victor 460 straight-out-of-the-box. I've tested most of these on a dynamometer, with various cams, for what it's worth....and many others have too...
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