Front Panhard Bar Question

I was looking over a Jim Busby coupe and noticed this picture. Looks to me like a clean version of a panhard bar. Has anyone else tried this and have any feedback on how safe and well it works? Or not?

Thanks

 

Front panhard bars are a great improvement on a buggy front axle! it cuts out the sway from the shackles. That one looks to relive the axle arc with the wishbone slot.I think it would be stronger if it was caped at the bottom to keep metal spread from opening up the slot. I like it!

 

I did this several years ago on a customer chassis with a Bell tube axle, P&J front coilover suspension, and a 4 bar. The parts I used came from the now defunct Deuce Factory and mounted behind the axle. Theirs was a channel bracket which welded to the frame and a stud with a sealed roller brg welded to the axle than ran inside the channel. Customer drove the 32 roadster that went on the chassis all over the Southwest.

 

Interesting idea, might have tried that instead of conventional one on my build if I had seen this beforehand.
Might give some thought to this for the rear if I find I need one as my rear shackles are a little more vertical than I'd like.
Dave

 

I ran the setup from the Deuce Factory for awhile. When it was new, it worked fine. After a few thousand miles, the channel would wear and thats where the problem started again. You could use a starter shim, helped for awhile, then had to start the whole process over. Cleaner, but more trouble than a regular panhard bar, IMHO.

 

I've always given this setup thought, seems like a neat solution, but seems like the tolerance between the guide and the bearing would have to be damn close. Otherwise you'd have an oh-so annoying, "clunk-clunk" all the time. I remember talking to ElPolacko about it, just don't remember what his thoughts were?!

 

We have front and rear conventional panhard bars on our Bonneville race car and they work very well. Keeps things from moving around.--TV

 

A similar setup was used on '60s racing Alfa Romeo's.



Look at that setup for idea's to adapt for the Ford I-beam.

Wear might still be an issue, but not as much as with the setup in the 1st pic of this Thread.

 

It's called a Cam Follower-in-Track or sliding pin. It differs from a panhard bar because the axle travels straight up and down instead of an arc. However, a sliding pin can have a lot of lateral free-play as wells as friction.

 

It also differs from a Panhard bar because its not a bar...

It was used quite a bit, at some point.

If I remember correctly it was also used on some Aston Martins, and/or Lagonda's...


Geometry wise it has more in common with a Watts link, but its cruder & simpler than a Panhard or Watts.

 

Check out 'Malcolm's' build thread.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=543427
He's working on an up-dated version of that set-up.Nice job he's doing too!
May do something similar myself.

 

First thing I see in the photo above is that there sure isn't much down travel for the suspension to work... Either there or at the spring clamp.

 

Now that we are completely off thread, the old Alfa sliding block rear suspension... loved it, but it's pretty much for racing, eh? I like a good Watts link better. Here are some pix of the factory trick AutoDelta parts. I suppose you could fab a smaller version to work like Busby's rig, but his is so much simpler.

How about just a dead perch on the driver's side? Gary

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/giu...block-rear-suspention-castings-new-repro.html

 

Model A I built 5 years ago I had a similar set up , but I used a urethane skateboard wheel in a channel..................works beautiful ..........this was in a full fendered car and could hide the set up behind the splash apron .......

I'm building a channeled 32 coupe and want to do the same thing ....dont know if I can hide it enough yet..............??

Steve in Oz

 

I'm running a dead perch on one side of my front buggy spring. This method was used on dirt track cars since the 40's. Clean and simple.

 

Awesome info guys. Thank you! It definitely caught my attention and I had my thoughts and opinions on the set up. The input and experience is much appreciated!

I can see tolerances being crucial for the sake of slack and clunking. As well as wear issues. I wonder if it would be better, regarding bumpsteer, than a traditional panhard bar due to the lack of arc through suspension travel??? Can't beat how well and reliable a traditional panhard bar is. But this is pretty neat.

 

I haven't tried a setup exactly like that. We use a pieced of channel and a bearing mounted on a stud. Behind the axle so that it doesn't show. Works like a champ.

So I have a question and it will require me to hijack the thread instead of starting a new thread. If everyone will allow me a little wiggle room here.

On a standard panhard bar it runs from one frame rail to the other side of the axle. I know that it is better to run it in one direction than in the other direction. Which side should it be run from, the driver or the passenger?

OK sorry to hijack the thread.

 

Very cool. No worries on hijacking. You should run the panhard bar from the passenger side of the axle to the driver side of the frame. Try and replicate the same length and angle as the drang link. Assuming you are using a cross steer setup. All of this will help keep bumpsteer minimal by keeping everything working on the same angles.

 

what if you are using a direct steer set up?

 

better yet is their anything I can do in setting up my suspension to ensure I wont need a panhard bar to begin with?

 

With traditional steering, the best thing to do with a panhard bar, is to keep the bar as parallel as possible to the ground at ride height. Length is still important. The longer the bar, the less arc it will make during suspension travel. There are other options from panhard bars such as dead perches and the unique set up in this thread to eliminate a panhard bar. Different styles and options for different preferences and applications.

 

Saw that set up in an American Rodder mag. chassis build article years ago. Still have the mag.

 

Im not sure how to answer this , but im not running one , and so far with about 1000 miles on my A I havent seen a need for one. I was getting ready to put one on if it was necessary but , so far no need
maybe its just how i have my suspension set up, or how well everything is playing together , but this puppy handles like its on rails.

and im driving it on shit ass michigan roads, and back country wash board roads..seems to deal with them just fine

 

That is good to hear.My dad runs a buggy spring with no centering device on his model A also.Car works very well.
I put them on all the chassis I build. I worry about the possibility of the chassis shifting rapidly (swinging on the shackles) in a hard,fast turn. That seems unlikely to me,but possible.
I have never tried the style of centering device in question,but have given it a lot of thought and probably will do it one day on one of my own cars as a test mule.

 

If the spring has a small amount of pre-load, spread the spring to be able to attach the shackels this will reduce sway 80% or more, and keep the shackels as short as possible. There are hundreds of thousands of cars and trucks with transverse springs and solid axles running around without them. They are just busy, ugly and not needed...imo

The slot with the bearing is very small and can be made many ways, it has a cool mechanical look, and if you feel you need lateral controll i would go this route.

 

With a cross steer setup its the most critical to have a Panhard, or someting else to locate the axle better than just the shacles on the spring do.
( the sideways movement will give some steering input, and vise versa )

You'd mount the Panhard on the side of the chassis where the streering box is ( Dr.Side ), and on the axle on the other side.
So the arcs of the draglink and the Panhard are as similar as possible.
To minimise bumpsteer.

 

I was ready to install one if needed..but thought I would run it to see how well it acted without..

I have pushed her hard thru a few turns to see how well she tracked, so far she hugs the road, maybe with the lowering, and my spring having a few leafs out of it, and the weight of a full fender sedan, and also running KYB gas shocks up front too, may all play a role in the stability on a transverse spring mounted beam axle..?? seems to be fine so far

Im running 4 bar, 4" drop I beam , slider spring(has nylon pucks in between each leaf ends) with 2 or 3 leafs out, cross steer vega box set up, and KYB gas shocks, no dead perches (they smell funny)

mind you all this shit is new and tight, hey if it aint tight , it aint right eh?

Im not saying you need one, and Im not saying you dont, but so far im golden W/O

Was rollin at 80 yesterday down 23 from Ann Arbor in a good cross wind, didnt make a difference to her

 

And late '30s Mercedes-Benz racers, I believe. Just before they went into Schwingaxles in a big way ...

Important to stress, cross steering will only work correctly with something like a Panhard bar, which constrains the axle to move in an arc, as the cross-link does.

 

Thanks fellas for the response. I can never remember for sure what is correct when it is time to set one up then I end up second guessing myself. Maybe is I would just submit the physics of it to memory it would help me remember what is right.

Mr Shapes,
I actually have one in the wings that is cross steer from the factory. It may get traded before I get to it but if not getting it right the first time will make me very happy.