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Ft. susp.for 50 Stude Champ.. Your thoughts?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by toughnut, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. toughnut
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 106

    toughnut
    Member
    from Arizona

    I'm pondering (that means trying to convince my wife) buying a 50 Stude Champion Starlite.
    Does anyone have any thoughts about the front suspension? I've pondered a MII, but that takes a sub frame grafted on. I also have considered a C5 front, but the sub frame fabrication might be cumbersome. I'm not sure.
    Is the stock suspension that bad?
    Any comments and experience would be helpful.
     
  2. Studebaker never had the money to do any major retooling and I believe the basic frame and suspension stayed right to the end, so you may be able to upgrade it using stuff for late Lark. That's still drum brake, but not terrible.

    You might look at the Jaguar XJ sedan swap - they're cheap, discs, rack & pinion, and unbolt off the Jag so you can put one on another car without cutting the frame.
     
  3. toughnut
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 106

    toughnut
    Member
    from Arizona

    Okay,
    Do you have more info of the Jag XJ suuspension? I'm not familiar with them and couldn't find out anything on a Google search. Do you have experience with that front end? Thanks!
     
  4. wickedgoodracer
    Joined: Feb 16, 2009
    Posts: 192

    wickedgoodracer
    Member

    i'm runnin a Volare ft crossmember,it has power steering and disc brakes.easy to install and you can crank the torsion bars to dial in ride height.also runs small pattern ford/mopar wheels
     

    Attached Files:


  5. toughnut
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 106

    toughnut
    Member
    from Arizona

    Would I need it?
    Is the PS rack and pinion? Did you have to alter the frame much to get it to fit? I like the idea of adjusting the ride height.

    I have an MII on my other car and the ride height is a pain to adjust. It's never right the first time!
     
  6. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    I have the stock Lark front end with the Turner disk brake kit. Ford Turino rotors and Chevy calipers. A Summit universal firewall mount master cylinder and booster. Great. I love it. The Lark came with a firewall mount master cylinder.
     
  7. toughnut
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 106

    toughnut
    Member
    from Arizona

    Is that a front clip or do the lark parts replace the Champion parts on the champ frame? Sorry that I don't know, but I really don't. What are the advantages other than the brakes? Ie: ball joints and geometry?
    Where do I find out about the Turner disk brake kit?
    Thanks!
     
  8. wickedgoodracer
    Joined: Feb 16, 2009
    Posts: 192

    wickedgoodracer
    Member

    the volare is NOT rack and pinion,you COULD use a rack but the stock p/s box and pump work fine. my stude drives nice but is underpowered with a GM 2.8 and auto w/od.nice cruzer and will run 70-75 all day long

    i will put er on the lift and take some pics soon,have 3 mo cancer ck 2morrow so am kinda slackin'
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  9. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    Guess I wasn't to clear there. I have a Lark. To the best of my knowledge the six cylinder Lark has the same front suspension as the 50 Champ. So I didn't replace anything except the brakes. I expect you could goggle Turner brake, or look in Hemmings. Or check with the Studerbaker Drivers club.
     
  10. tempestan55
    Joined: May 13, 2011
    Posts: 27

    tempestan55
    Member
    from Tempe, AZ

    The '50 Stude suspension is not at all like the '51 and later. The later Stude/Lark suspension components/disc brake conversions will not fit the '50.

    tempestan
     
  11. toughnut
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 106

    toughnut
    Member
    from Arizona

    Is the '50 suspension worth a rebuild, and disc brake conversion, or would I just be pissin up a rope?

    I think the main advantage of the MII would be defeated because it would require new frame rails be fabricated.

    I don't know what the Jag XJ conversion entails.

    I guess I'm looking for something that may not exist; the excellent handling, easily installed setup, at a favorable price.
    Fatman gets $1K for just the MII subframe for a 50 stude. Oh my.
     
  12. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    ford aerostar has a bolt off deal. Folks have been using them on the studie trucks but they do need some adapter brackets fabricated. Don;t know how many are still around in slavage yards. they are similar to MII but have their own crossmember which carries everything.
    [​IMG]

    http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Frames/buddy/aerosusp.html

    Does your car have the PLANAR front suspension? Is is a bit strange but simple and rugged. Basically the lower transverse leaf spring acts as both the complience feature and the locating piece, (some have other locating arms also) it has kingpins, and then a tubular upper locating arm. It also likely has a antisway bar. Kinda similar to the monoleaf deal corvette used for a while at the rear. Willys Jeepsters also used a similar system. Upgrading the spring shockes and and adding Turner's disc brake kit would probably give you all you need for cruising and traveling.
     
  13. I am probably mistaken but i believe that the lark had a real independent suspension, the Avanti and the hawk kept the king pin suspension up into the mid '60s.

    The 49 if I recall was a very early rendition of the later king pin suspension and an upgrade to a later style of it would be a good idea. The Avanti and I think the Hawk GT as well had optional disc brakes. They are a bolt on to the earlier suspension.

    BTW if you have never driven the king pin suspension on a stude like a Commander Starlight or a Hawk you have not lived. They have a wonderful feel to them. Perhaps that is just one man's opinion.


    Rich
    Are you sure? I am asking here. it seems to me that when I poked my head under a later lark that it had stamped A arms and ball joints. but I suppose I could be wrong, I have a catalog of parts here, now I will have to go look unless you can straighten me out. ;)

    I do know this for sure that the first gen Avanti had the disc brake option at least in '64 and that they were the same suspension as the older commanders and champs. I don't know that the discs are comperable to modern discs and maybe don't even work as well as the big commander drums. they are an 11' rotor with a bendix dual piston caliper. The caliper looks a little wimpy. I have a set here that I am going to use anyway just to piss the rest of the world off and make a comparison. I can always switch back to the drums if I don't like 'em. :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  14. plym_46
    Joined: Sep 8, 2005
    Posts: 4,018

    plym_46
    Member
    from central NY

    In the Studebaker museum there is a scene featuring a section of the assembly line. It features a 50 or 51 Studebaker sedan with no front sheet metal comng down the cconveyor. the front suspension is clearly visable is is the Planar type with tublular upper control arms. There was a change from 49 to 50 that replaces two cast uper control arms with this singular tubular upper piece. I believe this suspension was used up untill the lark was intorduces as it was the frist model in the line to use a unibody concept rather than body on frame.

    Having said that, I just found this shot showing a 50 Champion with a very conventioin coil spring and kingpin frnt suspension. Don't se any shcock though.
    Wonder if the comander and land cruiser kept the planar and the champs got this set up in 50. If this is what you have, some ew springs from Espo, some good shocks, and a beefier anty sway bar with some disc brakes, what more do you need??

    [​IMG]
     
  15. The shock is right in the middle of the coil spring. That is the same suspension that Stude used on commanders, hawks and the Avanti right up until they discontinued them.

    My '53 Commander has huge finned drums heavy buggers.

    I am thinking that the '49 had the goofy planer suspension I recall changing one of the early bullet nosed cars out to the later commander suspension when I was younger, it was a pretty easy swap as I recall. All those pieces are repoped now so if you couldn't find a donar you could find the pieces to build it.
     
  16. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,817

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO


    when you search on google, always end with site:jalopyjournal.com
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=513236
     
  17. Reverborama
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 195

    Reverborama
    Member
    from Minnesota

    tempestan55 is correct. The 1951 model year was involved major changes to the Studebaker front suspension to allow for the then-new V8. That basic suspension carried through to the end of production in 1966. The 1950 suspension is quite different.

    If I was planning on running anything other than the stock Champion 6, I'd look real hard at MII or sub-frame it with a Nova.
     
  18. Manest
    Joined: Apr 22, 2010
    Posts: 4

    Manest
    Member

    the 1950 Champion suspension is unique to 1950. Nothing before or after it interchanges. However most pieces are rebuildable, all are grease able and there are still some NOS parts out there. No one I have found makes any "upgrade" parts, ie: disc brake conversions, etc. All that being said, the OEM suspension is generally a good set-up. The car's main flaws, as far as rodding it are concerned, are:

    1. Drum brakes all the way around. It might be possible to put bigger drums on it, I have not researched that route.

    2. The rear axle will not hold up to any considerable amount of power, maybe no more than 200hp.

    Other that these things the car is awesome IMHO.:D:D

    FYI: 1950 and 1951 are the only "bullet nose" years

    Mine is getting the "Volare" suspension along with a 400hp 318cid:eek: and all the rest of the drivetrain, A/c, etc. from my donor car. I know all those purists over on SDC are rolling there eyes at this:rolleyes: but I want a car I can drive everyday and get parts fairly easily for.
     
  19. toughnut
    Joined: Jul 28, 2009
    Posts: 106

    toughnut
    Member
    from Arizona

    Well, thank you for the comprehensive reply of the week. If the '50 Champion suspension is that unique, I think I'll plan on a MII (or maybe other) and dish out the left over OEM parts to the ordained purists. I plan to put a LL8 engine in it anyway.
    I still have not made a deal on a car, but am close to making an offer for one.
    The big hesitation is the frieght charges. If I could find something to haul to the Chicago area from Phoenix to help pay for the haul back, I could use my car trailer.
    I have not found a 50 Champ Starlite Coupe closer for good $$.
    Thanks again.
     
  20. Manest
    Joined: Apr 22, 2010
    Posts: 4

    Manest
    Member

    I know the cancer check-up take precedence, but when you get around to it I'd really like to see those frame pics:D:D

    Hope the check-up goes well
     
  21. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,908

    CGkidd
    Member

    Good thread. I am going to pick up a 50 Stude 2 door champion today. Not using any of the stock suspension though. This one is going to be a straight axle gasser with quarter elliptic rear end and a 56 Olds rocket for power.
     
  22. '53 up suspension from a Lowey is what you want. Almost a bolt in a real nice solid suspension. I know where there is a complete suspension that could be had today. It needs control arm bushings but I just happen to have a complete never used set of bushing here that I will not be using.
     
  23. aircap
    Joined: Mar 10, 2011
    Posts: 1,748

    aircap
    Member

    Be smart and do like Rich Fox said - join the forum of the Studebaker Drivers Club, or the Racing Studebakers forum. Get the low down from REAL StudeFolk who love to help.
     
  24. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,908

    CGkidd
    Member

    I will be pulling parts from mine soon if anyone needs 50 front suspension, overdrive trans, gauge cluster, radio, seat trim there will probably be more. I will be getting pics as soon as I feel better. Picked up a damn cold thats kicking my ass.
     
  25. Uh I thought I was real StudeFolk, maybe I was mistaken. Do I have to join a club to be real StudeFolk? :rolleyes:
     
  26. johnod
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 799

    johnod
    Member

    Well I'm a member, didn't see you at the meetings, your name came up, but we voted and it's official, you're not real stude folk.:)
     
  27. Damn the luck, is it because of my beng divorced? That's what got me kicked out of the christians. :D
     
  28. johnod
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 799

    johnod
    Member


    Naah,wasn't that at all, the christians are,, ahh,, shall we say, a pretty tight,,, knit group.
    Ya that's the ticket.
    How's that for PC?

    However we couldn't over look that letting your sister date a cop thing,:eek: I'm sure you can understand.
    :)
     

  29. Well I'm glad you never found out that they were married. :eek:
     
  30. CGkidd
    Joined: Mar 2, 2002
    Posts: 2,908

    CGkidd
    Member

    Anyone need 50 stude front suspension components? I will be pulling mine off soon. Give me a PM and we can work something out.
     

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