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Smoker slicks...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Conder, Jun 21, 2009.

  1. masracingtd1167
    Joined: Oct 20, 2009
    Posts: 100

    masracingtd1167
    Member
    from ct

    Just a thought Back in the late sixties and early seventy's I ran a c/d . 150 wheel base small block Chevy . Car ran high 8's We alway's ran an open rear and the car went nice and straight . Even if it got sideway's you could drive right out of it. Then we tried a spool . The car turned into an animal you just could not drive it. My question is did the older fuel car's run open rear's as well?
     
  2. WhitePunkOnNitro
    Joined: Apr 2, 2009
    Posts: 324

    WhitePunkOnNitro
    Member
    from Middle Tn

    Open rears were common right up until the beginning of the RE era. In fact, Garlits had one in his first one.
     
  3. The real issue is to find a track with a natural surface. It's a real dilemma, I plan on attending the Kingdon Reunion this year as it's the only track in CA that I know of that doesn't use steroids on its surface.
     
  4. Nice avitar MrNailhead!

    Running an open rear looks a little dicey.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. 64 DODGE 440
    Joined: Sep 2, 2006
    Posts: 4,421

    64 DODGE 440
    Member
    from so cal

    Check out Toymaker's meets at Eagle Field.......raw untreated asphalt!!

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413954
     
  6. Rick Sis
    Joined: Nov 2, 2007
    Posts: 710

    Rick Sis
    Member
    from Tulsa OK

    Differential gear theory is something that has always been often misunderstood. Everybody has seen the stuck wheel scenario, where one wheel is on dry pavement and the other in the mud. The stuck wheel spins and someone says "all the power is going to the stuck wheel, we ain't going anywhere".

    Although it appears that all the power is going to the stuck wheel, in reality both axles are seeing equal torque. It takes so little torque to spin the stuck wheel that the same torque being applied to the other wheel isn't enough to move the car.

    So, the important thing to remember about open rear ends is that equal torque is always....ALWAYS being applied to both axles.

    In the pic that Kerry posted, the left tire is spinning at a higher rate, but the same torque is being applied to the right tire. This is a bad pass, in terms of performance, but you will notice that the car is still headed straight ahead and it also clearly shows the driver has the front wheels straight ahead also.

    So, now ponder what the scenario would be if this car had a spool.....and both axles are always turning at the same rate (rpm) when one tire loses traction.
     
  7. Frank K
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 185

    Frank K
    Member

    I started reading without looking at the name...I thought this must be Tim...Frank Kunkel :)
     
  8. lippy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2006
    Posts: 6,822

    lippy
    Member
    from Ks

    :D[​IMG]
     
  9. I've seen that lot's of times. With one tire getting no traction, the second will follow in short order due to less load and it'll go up in smoke. We're not talking about daily drivers here.
     
  10. Frank K
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 185

    Frank K
    Member

  11. Frank K
    Joined: Dec 9, 2005
    Posts: 185

    Frank K
    Member

    Lippy you put the front tire against the tree to smoke em, doesn't count, haha...Frank Kunkel
     
  12. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

    This is a good point. I've given up on even thinking about finding "raw" tracks (no compound) to run on. I believe it's figuring it out at current facilities or nothing. Eagle field only has one lane for smokers and frankly, there wouldn't be a future in developing this kind of racing unless you can make it work with current tech.

    Hi Frank, I gotta call Sharky again to get back on over there and it's just been nuts lately. Jensen left a message that he'll be running the New York car at the March Meet and possibly even the flyer too!

    Not much time today but it's great to know this thread is still getting a little play...
     
  13. Ok, just read all of this thread again tonight. I got it figured out. ;)

    Cinch belts tight.
    Lotsa HP
    Heavy right foot that can pedal

    Jr Fuel, here we come

    And to be serious, Kerry, from my experience those hurst slicks will smoke like a banshee with your combo. The touring was to light to make mine smoke but they would spin controllably. Once you get em going the smoke show is amazing, you got the HP to do that.

    BTW, call me man!
     
  14. BEAR
    Joined: Sep 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,309

    BEAR
    Member

    allot of great pics guys
     
  15. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

  16. snaptwo
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 696

    snaptwo
    Member

    Bump--Waap! Waap! from Gerry's terrfying burnouts , damn I miss that !!
     
  17. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,586

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    Up for Tim.....I would love to see that now days.
     
  18. KING CHASSIS
    Joined: Aug 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,862

    KING CHASSIS
    Member

    Im workin at it. Slow but shure.
     
  19. KING CHASSIS
    Joined: Aug 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,862

    KING CHASSIS
    Member

    Here is the video Conder posted. In a lazy viewers, dont have to click the link post. It only took me a year to figure out how to post a video this way. So here is my second one.
     
  20. aaggie
    Joined: Nov 21, 2009
    Posts: 2,530

    aaggie
    Member

    I worked at a speed shop in Houston in the early 60s and your thread brought back a lot of memories. We ran a blown 392 Chrysler on 90% Nitro and 12" M&H slicks. The car had a 98" wheelbase and would smoke the whole 1320'. I think our best runs were around 180MPH in the low 8s, it was exciting and fun and the crowds loved it.

    I think you need to consider wheelbase and tire compound to get a "smoker" class going. The short cars will not hook as good and makes the tires less important. Of course most people would not want to build a new car just to get in the class. Good luck.
     
  21. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

    I actually have time to look at the computer! Brian, there has GOT to be a way to do this FAST. Most of the exhibition smoker runs from the '80's I've seen are barely in the 11s. Jim Davis got into the low 8's at 214 during the '80s NDRA. But in '66, Garlits and Warren ran high 6's smoking the tires the whole way. What makes it so hard to go fast now? Is it this new era track compound? Too much h.p.? Not enough? Wobbly slicks? Lack of interest? This is fascinating to Brian, myself and maybe a handful of others, but it's doubtful outside of us, anyone will ever actually seriously try to develop this kind of racing ever again. Too bad I ain't rich...
     
  22. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,586

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    To bad I ain't rich also because I would buy a track specifically for this type of racing and promote the hell out of it.....I don't need to see speed? I need to see this type of explosive SMOKERS?
     
  23. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

    Royal, I think there were a LOT more guys that thought like us in the '80s and early '90s. I've been searching for video of NDRA runs lately, and by the looks of it, those guys were having a hard time. In footage I've seen from '90, the cars are bitchin' updated short fuelers. They roll AROUND the water box and stage, then it's choppy, irratic, strange passes that consist of wheelies, bogging, blowing the tires off completely and or damaged equipment. Sometimes all the above! It's no wonder it never really took off.

    I still stand by what I've always said. If it was done before, it can be done again. FASTER.

    My hat's off to Brian Fox. He's the only one I know of that's trying to do it today. Maybe there's an automotive sponsor out there noticing the waning interest in Nascar, Drag Racing etc, and would consider sending Brian a new set of slicks and maybe a little money. For what I've seen them spend on inflatable beer cans, Fox could smoke 'em for a YEAR.

    Of course, if the Japanese or Europeans decide to do it, you'll see the same impact they've had on custom motorcycles (amazing)...Not to mention they'd have to run on untreated concrete airstrips mostly.
     
  24. 296moon
    Joined: Oct 24, 2007
    Posts: 662

    296moon
    Member
    from england

    I also want to do smoky runs and am building mine with that in mind, on paper I should have 800hp at the flywheel, am useing a t400 box converted to manual so can pull away in top gear with an as yet unlocked early olds rear with 3.25s, presantly on 8 1/2"x15"s, whats my best tyre options and should I lock the rear or try it open? [​IMG]
     
  25. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

    Plenty of slicks to choose from, try Coker for the Firestones and Radir too. That "closed or open rear" deal is another question. Nobody seems to know what's better. I've got a spool, I think Brian does too. Open diffs were the norm back then, but be sure to run something STRONG. That car looks heavy...
     
  26. ChassisResearchKid
    Joined: Feb 18, 2006
    Posts: 765

    ChassisResearchKid
    Member
    from Michigan

    A 1000' tire smoker is the intent with the new car. That was the whole reason behind having Brian build me upto date chassis. Hopefully Brian and I can run side by side in smoky exhibition pass in the near future. It needs to look like 1965. Crazy man, crazy.
     
  27. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

    So pretty soon there will be 2 that are actually attempting this. I hear Drag Racing involves 2 vehicles....Should be good.
     
  28. Toymaker
    Joined: Mar 26, 2006
    Posts: 3,924

    Toymaker
    Member
    from Fresno,CA

    Tim, Eagle Field is "RAW" in both lanes and has a solid policy (NOW) of NO Traction Compound! People only see one lane Smoke Shows because Stormy Byrd is the only Showmwan who "Dares" to do it for the Fans and FUN:D on the west coast. When finances allow you complete a GREAT idea contact me and we'll put something together. I'd love nothing more than to have yourself, Brian, Kerry and I know Stormy would join the fun and anyone else interested put on a Show I know the fans wouldn't forget! Rocky
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2011
  29. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

    Rocky, I am stoked beyond belief that you've set-up Eagle Field this way!!! I also applaud Stormy for smokin' the tires. I thought Brian was the only one trying to seriously go fast (currently) using this style. Also, Eagle Field just might be the only "raw" track in the united states. BIG possibilities.

    Rocky, if they hauled ass back then, we can haul ass NOW. Thank you.

    Once again, if there is anyone out there with the wheaties to partner up with me, I've got a full tilt, Donovan powered, blown nitro tire smoker sitting in my shop doing NOTHING. READY TO RUN.

    Tim Conder (707) 843-9454 - Fuelers Forever
     
  30. hjallle
    Joined: Jan 27, 2010
    Posts: 25

    hjallle
    Member
    from Sweden

    conder have you ever drove gods rail or satan on the strip

    love those cars
     

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