Ford MEL engines????

Ok I just looked at my 430 mel and it has a fuel pump mounted by the dizzy. also on FE,s the intake has the pushrod holes and the valve cover bolts to the head and intake. The engine you have pictured is a FE. Its not not a 430 mel. I dont think mel heads where ever used on any FE by anyone. Old wolf

 

Yep, IIRC (no time for Google today) the 332 was '62-'63 only- my F750 with the 332 was a '63- an ex-PG&E truck, hence the Allison auto. Had a steel crank and sodium-filled exhaust valves like the other heavy duty engines

BTW- I have a Zephyr V12 and a lot of extra parts out in the shop looking for an interesting home..

 

Are the correct pistons available for theses or you gotta get them custom made?

 

Pistons would have to be custom unless you could keep the standard bore and reuse them or found some old ones.

That TBird is an FE, look at the valve cover bolt pattern, the MEL has three across the bottom.

 

Let me interject here. There is no direct piston copy for a MEL piston available unless as mentioned NOS. EGGE sells a piston that is correct for the 462. The engine design was changed so many times with piston designs that an exact repro would be difficult and costly to stock.

DIAMOND RACING can either duplicate your piston or modify it about anyway you desire. WISECO also offers quality forgings and will work with you on an exact or modified copy.

Most replacement 430 pistons are usually redone Buick blanks that do not duplicate the original dome design and lowers the CR dramatically.

 

#91;
I thought that looked like FE valvetrain !

Mr. Kultulz thanx for the links!
After all these years I now know what those extra bellhousing bolt holes were for on 460's!!
Tom S.

 

Note that the 460 blocks did not have the extra holes throughout production, in spite of what the link says; when the D9TE block was released in '79, which stayed through end of production, FoMoCo removed the bosses. A minor point but true nonetheless.

 

Trucked up, again close, but no cigar...LOL. The MEL engine, as well as the W engine from Chevy, did indeed have the combustion chamber in the block instead of the head. At least in 58-60 they did. They were the "orginal" wedge head engines. At that time only these two were called wedge engines. They were also the "original" swirl engines. Ford experimented with swirl technology in late 1957 with these engines. They produced gobs of torque with virtually no detonation with 10.5 compression and cheap gas. There demise came when NASCAR outlawed them along with the hemi. Ford decided to go with the lighter FE series since they were a no go in NASCAR.

See how smart your getting? And for a sbc man too!

 

You know that would really help in the case of an MEL stroker, because once you bore it it's going to need a modified copy. Also may need the pin relocated to make a stroker setup work. I wonder if they could gas port it or would that cause any problems in the design of the combustion chamber? (i.e. ruin the swirl, etc.) By the way KULTULZ, and this is off topic, but how do you become an MEL registered mechanic?

 

That is just an avatar. The patch was given to techs back then that were trained in the series.

I began to study MEL (and other odd engines from FORD) some years back as I got tired of 5.0L tech and always wondered what those strange looking engines were all about. Very few had any idea or the actual knowledge.

 

I was thinking it was something like that, too bad, I really wanted that distinction! I'm planning on being a mechanic after high school, anyway. So how hard is it to find an MEL? I'd love to drop one into something, but that wouldn't cost an arm and leg to get, would it?

 

Not hard to come by but very expensive to overhaul.

You concentrate on ASE Certificates and Patches...

 

That's a relief, I knew it'd be pricey to rebuild but if it were pricey to get in the first place that would really put a damper on it.

Also, thanks for the advice on ASE certificates and patches. My dad is an ASE certified master mechanic, which is what got me into it in the first place. He used to take me to work with him every once in a while before I got into school. I've been telling people since before kindegarten that I wanted to be a mechanic.

 

Yup,now it's my turn. A Heron head is one having the combustion chamber in the the piston.This design was originally perfected in 1918 by a guy named Heron for aircraft engines.It had a short lifespan and Hemis took over in the 1920's
Wedge? GM called the 49 Caddy a wedge head.Yes? If not,everyone else does along with the GMC 302 in 1952, Pontiac and SBC in 1955.

 

Building a 430 right now.

 

------------------
About that "Herron head" design
supposedly having a short life span
- maybe for conventional, spark-ignition
gasoline engines - but just about every
diesel engine ever built - and including
everything currently being produced
today - has the combustion chamber
built into the piston crown.

Mart3406
==========================

 

jamesandrewjohnson<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_6613044", true); </SCRIPT> you can become a registered MEL mechanic by sending me $25.00 for a genuine MEL patch just like the one on Klutz avatar..

 

-----------------------
Ok.....that did it for me. As far as I'm concerned,
this thread has now fully devolved and digressed
and turned into a MELodrama!

Mart3406
==================

 

Oh, yeah, that patch is sure to give me all the experience and knowledge I'll ever need to properly work on an MEL..

 

A few posters on this thread have already put some good words in for MEL engines, like Kutulz who knows them back and front....

I am building a balanced 430 MEL engine for a 1965 Chris Craft Supersport... with a tripower, harland sharp roller rockers, Wiseco custom pistons .040, moon valve covers, edelbrock water cooled exhaust manifolds and a whole bunch of other wildy rare and expensive parts... and I will say this: The MEL engine was intended to be the last and greatest incarnation of the high horsepower combustion chamber in cylinder ford engines, and it truly was a GREAT engine. Anyone who really knows their NASCAR history will remember the photo finish between Johnny Beauchamp and Lee Petty in the first Daytona 500.... Petty was eventually declared the winner after THREE DAYS of deliberation. Beauchamp was driving a Holman Moody prepared T Bird with a 430 in it.

Another one? The Miami to Nassau race that was won by Bertram in 1960 and subsequently established their reputation as a world famous boat builder... yep, you guessed it, the boat was powered by 430 MEL engines.

The 430 MEL was subsequently cast aside by Ford in the face of the FE motors coming out, but it was capable of immense horsepower, and even more, positively stump pulling low end torque. Any one can build an alternate motor for the great Ford cars and modify the car to run with it, but the MEL engine line is a legitimate part of hot rod history, and deserves their due. That's all I gots to say.

 

I just spoke to Joe Bunetic tonight, and I am bundling up my intake to send to him for a carb build... on a boat, they are mechanical advance, and J tubes for the venting... and I have found 3 Nicson Beehive flame arrestors for the assembly as well.

 

i have a 1960 T-Bird i put a 430 in. I am in the process of installing 427 Ford intake and exhaust valves. The intakes are the 2.19 hollow Ford valves and the exhaust are stock 430 size ,(1.75) , but are the sodium filled 427 variety. also had Oregon cam grinders regrind the cam to 428 CJ specs(NOT super CJ). I also cleaned-up the intake and exhaust ports at the valve bowls. I switched the car over to a manual 3-speed toploader(much cheaper than a 4-speed), and aluminum flywheel. I used hydraulic clutch linkage from a 1959 Ford truck. Losts of work, hope it runs better!!!

 

Lots of great info on these MEL engines. I have one in my 58 ParkLane and love it. Maybe an old H&M guy can answer this question. Why were the T-Birds used instead of the Mercs in the NASCAR races in 58? I believe they have the same suspension, front and rear. I think the Merc is lighter than the 430 Bird. Is it because it is lower to the ground (lower center of gravity) or is the unibody chassis stiffer than the full frame chassis of the Mercury? I may have just answered my own question. They obviously loved the 57 Merc, as you can see by all the old pictures. But no 58 Mercs? You would think with the bigger, hi torque 430 they would have been an even better stock car. Any body know? Thanks, great thread.

 

I have a set of those on a 'Bird FE 3x2 that came off a V-drive. The sweet part is, when you turn the engine around in an auto application, they face forward like a scoop

 

You might want to re-think those exhaust valves, there's a reason the FE guys don't use them anymore- they were never intended for long-term use, can corrode internally and undetected, and tend to be a little fragile. This is a well-known deal, and just for an example, a buddy of mine had the head fall off of one in his hand after giving it a light face cut on the valve grinder. There are many alternative valves like the Manleys, Ferreas etc, so no need to take the chance.
There wasn't a different dedicated SCJ cam, the difference between a CJ and a SCJ was all bottom end, using the 427 "LeMans" rods and a crank setup with altered balancing to match the heavier rods. The "Super" setup came in any car that was built with the '69-'70 Drag Pack option of 3.91 or 4.30 gears, and also included an engine oil cooler. Cam, heads, intake & carb were the same in the CJ and SCJ. There were other cams that were used in the race cars of course, including solids, but production cars got the same one, the same C6OZ-6250-B cam as the '66-'68 390GT. You're probably thinking of the slightly larger service C8AX-6250-C cam, which was shown in the '68 paperwork as a second "production" cam, along with the adjustable rockers, so they could be used in the '68 drag cars- but the SCJ didn't exist until '69. Oregon Cams is a very good choice as Ken has a soft spot for Fords in general and FE's in particular.

 

In 1959 I replaced the 312 y block in my 57 ford w/ a 430 MEL engine.Had lots more power but lower max rpm. I was 19 at the time & had lots to learn, I am now 73 & still learning. To raise max rpm I collapsed the stock hyd lifters,installed FE adj rockers , stock rockers from a low perf 332. these early 332 dogs came stock w/ solids. I used MEL shafts,& set clearances at .003 hot. this raised rpms ,& top speed to more than the 312. I then wanted more beans, I ported the choked up heads, put in 11 1/2 to 1 Jahns solid skirt racing pistons, installed a Holman & Moody solid lifter cam & kit with their springs, had it balanced .Headers & improved intake &carbs were to come later. I was now real cool. I couldn't wait to go out & dust off my buddies. it ran damned good. {it had a T85 3spd trans & a 356rear, no O.D. Ran great for about 1000 mi. Then the good times were over. I was running about 6000 rpm in high gear when it happened. A stock con rod broke in two in the middle, the piston sailed up to the top & stayed there. The bottom half stayed on the crank. I phoned Holman & Moody, they said stock rods would not survive high rpms. I put the engine back togther & kept the rpms down. & still won alot of street races. My next Ford was a 1661 Starliner w/ 401 hp 390FE [hot solid lifter cam 3-2s cast headers etc from the factory. T85 3spd w/ OD 5.12 ratio rear end. This was one hot Ford. The orig. owner won super stock class at the Sioux City Ia Dragway with it, I could go on about my 1957 Ford 406 cu in dirt track racer, but I have said enough. Greg

 

A lot of people don't know about them and confuse them for the later 410. It happens

 

Sorry if this link has already been posted.
Drag race between a 1958 Mercury Marauder 430 and a 1974 Pontiac Trans Am 455.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8XWKKp1shQ

 

This 58 belongs to my friend Brian.
He did a complete frame off restoration on the car, and it is flawless inside and out, and clean enough to eat off the underside.
He built and Dyno'd the big 430, and I believe it made 422HP and 490 ft-lbs of torque.
He also owns and races a 1964 Mercury Maurauder with a 425HP 427.
Brian bench flowed the heads of both cars while building the engine's, and the 430MEL heads outflowed the FE 's by a ton! From low lift #'s, clear on and beyond where the 427 heads flow #'s stopped at .500 lift, Ole Uncle MEL showed the FE "who's your Daddy", when the Mel head flow #'s peaked at over .600 lift.

Here is a video of the 58 at Floyd Garrett's Musclecar Museum down in Tennessee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVlwPUW9ZiA

 

envy is a deadly sin