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History Drag cars in motion.......picture thread.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Royalshifter, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. bentwings
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 132

    bentwings
    Member

    Well your right on some points. Most of us didn't know ...... about running blown gas. There was a lot of BS floating around too. For the most part the team with the most pistons won the races. :eek:

    Gene Adams at Hilborn really had the answers so if you could get to him and understood performance tuning you could get down the track.

    The old gas car blew clouds of black smoke when staging. The twins were like locomotives.:D

    Fuel distribution was a problem and we did not have the new blower tech that the guys use today. I tried to get our guys to let me try port lines but 2 against 1 just didn't get it. No amout or discussion could break "nobody else is doing it". If I could have run a car alone there would have been ports.

    When I got to BB/FC we had ports...one of the few that did. It made a big difference off the line in throttle response and 1/8 mile times. 4.50 was pretty quick back then. I then had the hi speed problem. Nobody was using a staged HS. The car owner simple refused to let me try it mostly because of pressure from our TF friends. They though it was just for them.:( So our top end suffered. there is a lot of stuff that went on in this era. All us old guys should get together and write a book. What a laugh.:) Can you imagin arguing about HS pros and cons for hours while 3 of you are riding down the road in the truck pulling a FC.:eek: How we ever stayed friends is beyond me.:confused:
     
  2. WCD
    Joined: Apr 15, 2008
    Posts: 1,712

    WCD
    Member

     
  3. Conder
    Joined: Jan 16, 2005
    Posts: 982

    Conder

    Attached Files:

  4. bentwings
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 132

    bentwings
    Member

    Both of these cars are in the pre slipper clutch days. Look at the weed burner pipes. Tires were rock hard. Basically street rubber on special carcases. The day somebody put a clutch disc in backwards was the end of this.:eek: haha

    Sombody else key in on this. haha I have to go play senior baseball. :eek:
     
  5. dgasbag
    Joined: Feb 23, 2005
    Posts: 124

    dgasbag
    Member
    from Upstate NY

    This was just a week ago at the Dover nostalgia drags @ Lebanon Valley NY
     

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  6. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I still say the early Chrysler half ball shaped chamber was like it was engineered specifically for nitro from get go.
    I say more energy efficiency and less detonation prone than later pent roof designs.
    But again,......... I only ran a early Chrysler on nitro and not supercharged for a short time, and never a late model.
    I must also say the statement about the blown gas guys consumption of parts is also dead on. Seems like you never saw one break or explode........... they just simply wore out.
    I believe if gas guys had used their talents with fuel, the racing world would have been quite different and far less explosive.
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  7. 69Chevelle454
    Joined: Nov 6, 2010
    Posts: 350

    69Chevelle454
    Member
    from Texas

    I wish You guys would write a book or atleast a very long and detailed thread with all your knowledge. Give young guys like myself a chance to learn from the masters ;)
     
  8. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,371

    c-10 simplex
    Member

    You can thank Roland Leong for that?
     
  9. Smokey Linkey
    Joined: Jun 17, 2009
    Posts: 165

    Smokey Linkey
    Member
    from Elyria, OH


    1st - Thanks for the pics of old friends Ron Potter/Golden Nugget #28782
    & Rich Place #28752 2nd pic.

    And for ya'll AA/GD guys (& gals) ear' ya' go...
     

    Attached Files:

  10. One Finger John
    Joined: Mar 18, 2009
    Posts: 459

    One Finger John
    Member

    Gentlemen, at the time of these pictures, what was the h.p. of the gas motors vs the fuel motors?
     
  11. storm king
    Joined: Oct 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,989

    storm king
    Member

    dgasbag, now THAT's the way to run a nostalgia car! Lebanon was always my favorite place. Beautiful track, sad to see all those signs covering the woods today...
     
  12. bentwings
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 132

    bentwings
    Member

    HTML:
     
    I still say the early Chrysler half ball shaped chamber was like it was engineered specifically for nitro from get go.
    I say more energy efficiency and less detonation prone than later pent roof designs.
    But again,......... I only ran a early Chrysler on nitro and not supercharged for a short time, and never a late model.
    I must also say the statement about the blown gas guys consumption of parts is also dead on. Seems like you never saw one break or explode........... they just simply wore out.
    I believe if gas guys had used their talents with fuel, the racing world would have been quite different and far less explosive.
    
    
    Ok let's hit this first.
    This is a common argument...the head shape. The 392 head was/is more flattened than the 426. there was a lot of discussion of this. but plain and simple cu in for cu in the 426 dominated. It was a big motor both size and weight. there are no small cu in variants such as the DeSoto that was used in the JF cars. % of fuel that the 426 could run blown day in and day out was greater, you could run more mag and when the high lift cams came along the 392 faded. Because of the high cyl pressures and the core shifts in the 392 it was on very shakey grounds. the 426 was a very well made piece. The heads were well done except for the exhaust which was compromised for the pass car. They still cracked like the 392 but you run with massive cracks and they still ran.

    The final point of this is that the Brad Anderson and Allan Johnson motors have very nice dome chamber and massive ports depending on the "stages" you get. I don't know what the largest lifts are but i do know some of the top runners in NFC are in the mid .700. I think the alcohol guys are way higher.

    As far as our gas parts consumption goes ....well there weren't too many real explosions. A few guys had rods break and cranks severed of course. Since there was less volume of gas, there were fewer fires and less disastrous distructions. Nitro is really liquid dynamite, It still ment the end of life for the iron blocks.

    Most of us built our own motors back then due to costs so we were pretty careful of what went into them.
    Us dragster guys were looked down upon by the gasser guys as they rearely burned a piston or blew up a motor. We just let it hang out more I guess. My own gang used pistons every bit as fast as the TF guys. At the time I was a toolmaker and Seriously into TIG welding. A challenge to "I can weld anything" was a burned piston....weld it up and remachine the ring grooves.. Smart A.. Well I was young and daring so I did. Low and behold it worked..at least for a few runs. So this became standard proceedure. I welded a lot of them. They didn't look pretty but at least we cut our costs and ran just as well.

    AS far as using our talents...thanks for the compliment. However Austin Coil, Dale Armstrong, Ken Veney, Brad Anderson and a host of other TF and FC guys are really responsible for the tech that is in todays Fuel game. Each of them could publish a "best Seller" related to drag racing. I've met and talked to a lot of them, I'm sure they don't remember me but I surely remember them.

    And the clutch. Indeed Roland Leong is probably the one that first ran it. Having met him a number of times I can assure you he was not the one that put the disc in backwards. (he didn't make the mistake) One of his guys maybe did but Roland Leong is not one to forget something and is very quick to pick up on the events at the track. I'm quite sure he saw the event, asked a question, got the answer, then took it and refined it to his liking. Resulting in him being an eon ahead of everyone else. :cool:
     
  13. Bucksnort
    Joined: Dec 24, 2007
    Posts: 3,302

    Bucksnort
    Member

    That sure looks like the pic I took at the Dover show of the King & Marshall car.Check out the Dover site,Gary,if you havn't already.Put a bunch of shots up.
    Too bad the front end was torn up,sure sounded good.
    We know why the signs are there,don't we.:)
     
  14. bentwings
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 132

    bentwings
    Member

    HTML:
     
    what was the h.p. of the gas motors vs the fuel motors? 
    
    You have to remember the late 70 TG were still pretty light weight by todays standards. Less than 1700 pounds.

    I don't know that anyone ran a gas 392 stock stroke or stroker on a dyno back then. I seriously doubt they had more than 750-800 hp. You could probably plug some numbers into one of the hp calculators along with times in the 7.4 and 188-190 for singles and 7.05 200 for twins. the twins. I think the twins had to run about 2200 pounds hense the cast spoke gasser front wheels. They were supposed to run stock stroke motors but how do you figure we were able to borrow a motor from one of them that had a 3/4 stroker in it?? What was the other motor ?? a 3/4 destroke??:rolleyes: fat chance:eek:

    Just in context.. My 355 sbc 6-71 has 550 on the street and 16k miles. Another guy I deal with has 650+ on his 383 sbc 6-71 and he drives if all the time too. We just have a lot better heads and cams now. Our BB/FC 8-71 with strips is now on a BBC on the street. runs great. Probably makes close to 700 without breathing hard.
     
  15. bentwings
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 132

    bentwings
    Member

    HTML:
     
    what was the h.p. of the gas motors vs the fuel motors? 
    
    You have to remember the late 70 TG were still pretty light weight by todays standards. Less than 1700 pounds.

    I don't know that anyone ran a gas 392 stock stroke or stroker on a dyno back then. I seriously doubt they had more than 750-800 hp. You could probably plug some numbers into one of the hp calculators along with times in the 7.4 and 188-190 for singles and 7.05 200 for twins. the twins. I think the twins had to run about 2200 pounds hense the cast spoke gasser front wheels. They were supposed to run stock stroke motors but how do you figure we were able to borrow a motor from one of them that had a 3/4 stroker in it?? What was the other motor ?? a 3/4 destroke??:rolleyes: fat chance:eek:

    Just in context.. My 355 sbc 6-71 has 550 on the street and 16k miles. Another guy I deal with has 650+ on his 383 sbc 6-71 and he drives if all the time too. We just have a lot better heads and cams now. Our BB/FC 8-71 with strips is now on a BBC on the street. runs great. Probably makes close to 700 without breathing hard.

    The TF motors probably had double the hp but I don't think there are any real number from back then.

    How about someone doing a dyno sim??
     
  16. 64 BFX Cyclone
    Joined: Jun 12, 2008
    Posts: 33

    64 BFX Cyclone
    Member
    from Honolulu

    Absolutely love all the pictures, and can appreciate the time and hard work finding all this stuff, scann, and posting, but if I can ask for anything, please add captions to the photos and submissions detailing the car, event, driver, or whatever, and give the photo a meaningful identification. I've been trying to find photos of Ford and Mercury factory drag cars, A/FX and B/FX mostly, so I can get details to help build my 64 A/FX Comet replica, but there's nearly FIFTEEN HUNDRED pages to go through!!! Awesome job, though, really guys. Thanks so much!

    OK, so if you have any pix or ideas, contact: no1musclecar at ya hoo dot com
    Mahalo,
    Robert
     
  17. mercuryjunky
    Joined: May 7, 2009
    Posts: 1,970

    mercuryjunky
    Member
    from arvada,co


    Try looking through this thread. All of your Comet questions can be found there.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335534&highlight=mercury+comets
     
  18. 64 BFX Cyclone
    Joined: Jun 12, 2008
    Posts: 33

    64 BFX Cyclone
    Member
    from Honolulu

    WOW! Thanks mercuryjunky! Just what I needed! Great avatar by the way.
    Aloha,
    Robert
     
  19. mercuryjunky
    Joined: May 7, 2009
    Posts: 1,970

    mercuryjunky
    Member
    from arvada,co

    Not a Problem, Thats Earl Wade Behind the car, Heres the vid of that Avatar pic.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. hog mtn dave
    Joined: Jul 14, 2004
    Posts: 1,352

    hog mtn dave
    Member


    He's a local Atlanta guy and I believe he's still racing. The Vega looks kinda crude compared to his other cars. I don't see a pic of that Vega on his website.


    www.yariniracing.com
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  21. MoKanMan
    Joined: Aug 15, 2003
    Posts: 223

    MoKanMan
    Member
    from Joplin, MO

    Ten or fifteen years ago, this Vega was running brackets at Centerville Dragway in Arkansas. The owner told me he bought it at a pawn shop in Memphis!
     

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  22. Another title defense. This time under the lights at San Gabe. Again, won on Larry's hole shots. I was there, and these were close, exciting races. '63 was a busy year for the big bad blue coupe.



    [​IMG]
     
  23. Royalshifter
    Joined: May 29, 2005
    Posts: 15,586

    Royalshifter
    Moderator
    from California

    I would have love to see that action.
     
  24. WCD
    Joined: Apr 15, 2008
    Posts: 1,712

    WCD
    Member

    Boyd Pennington was quite adapt at building motors. Even more impressive was that he continued to race despite having been diagnosed with luekemia. He and Mike Danylo fielded a top fueler too. And the lights used to illuminate the track, werent they those giant light beacons used to draw peoples attention to carnivals and grand openings of super markets?
     
  25. Some times the giant light becons would be rented if there was a big race scheduled for the night to help attract a crowd. But most of the actual track lighting back then was the large portable generators powering lights on portable poles, or sometimes the generators would be connected to lights on permanant telephome poles lining the track. I remember the bitter cold nights out at Fontana with a bunch of us huddled around one of the generators trying to get warm between rounds. I also remember seeing Jim Fox heating cans of Valvoline with a torch as he was dumping it in the Fox, Holding & Adair top fueler just before they rolled down the fire up road. We were freezing our butts off out in the Fontana vinyard, but would not have been anywhere else!
     
  26. 296ardun
    Joined: Feb 11, 2009
    Posts: 4,673

    296ardun
    Member

    They were, at least at San Gabriel, WWII aircraft searchlights, later used to advertize new car dealerships, etc...Bruce Woodcock hit one of the generaters in the Raker's top fuel car when he went off the track in '62, unfortunately fatal...wish I had never seen it...

    I remember the demise of the 554, we were firing the motor on Les Hawkins briefly- run Dragmaster car on alcohol to clean it out after the races, late at night, and Gene Mooneyham fired up the coupe and parked next to us...and said sadly, "can't afford to run it anymore, no money in fuel coupes..." and that was the last time we saw him with 554, got sold and ultimately went east...
     
  27. 1934coupe
    Joined: Feb 22, 2007
    Posts: 5,046

    1934coupe
    Member

    Very first run ever in this car, made 6 in all at the 3rd annual Dover Nostalgia Drags it Lebanon Valley. Kept it between the lines albeit not that quick or fast, had a best 1.42 60' time. Not bad for a 62 yr. old one armed Vietnam Vet:D:D:D

    http://youtu.be/EJremGfPlsc

    Pat
     
  28. Another shot of the title race against Argee-Sorensen. This time at about half track. Note Larry still has smoke pouring of the M&H's and is extending his lead. The roadster guys kind of brought a knife to this gun fight.



    [​IMG]
     
  29. WCD
    Joined: Apr 15, 2008
    Posts: 1,712

    WCD
    Member

    Given the hard as nails surface of the slicks that existed at that time, the absence of smoke tells me the motor on the roadster was sick or there was no clutch left to transmit the power. I was always amazed at the size of the parachute packs. man, when those 18' ring slots blossomed..look out!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  30. Bucksnort
    Joined: Dec 24, 2007
    Posts: 3,302

    Bucksnort
    Member

    Saw you make a few passes,Pat.Looked good.
    Should have found you in the pits but we spent most of the day in the stands drinking beer.[​IMG]
     

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