Alot of my friends are in the modern efi/turbo/1000hp streetcar with leather, a/c, and satnav crowd, and i've been teaching them through repeated buttwippings at stop lights about traditional tech. One of them took me up on a clutch turbo400 that i passed on (I'm holding out for a ClutchFlite for my Falcon gasser). He's got a really stout 5.4liter DOHC mill shoved in a 94Mustang (very OT, i realize) but we stuck the Clutch t400 behind it and last night was the maiden voyage. Very snappy shifts, but not brutal- little chirp to the tires at maybe 1/5th throttle- we have to do the tune so it's only in rough trim right now. Twin disc clutch from ram is pretty darned streetable, but not what you'd want mom to drive unless there was some more gear in it (stock t400 ratios, 3.23 rear, 28"tires) We'll see how this goes- I LOVE this trans. -rick
This is interesting. I looked at a clutch flite set up for Chevy at a swap meet about a year ago and it kind of got my wheels turning thinking about it. Things I have read say they are really hard on parts because of the brutal shifts they hit the drivetrain with.
This is why i'm posting it- not much recent info around from users of these. Yes it's a tire chirper, even with a tiny bit of throttle, but i've ridden in regular at cars with aggressive shift kits that chirped them just as much if not more due to the torque multiplication of the 'verter. People dont remember that you can still use the clutch pedal when shifting from 1-2 or 2-3 and that will keep you from even feeling the shift (if you want) Not having any issues with front pump leakage (knock wood) and the semi metallic twin disc is pretty streetable. It was after i passed up buying this clutch 400 that i realized i don't want the worry factor of that rear sprag in a 727 based Clutchflite. (I LOVE the 727-'cept for that damned roller sprag). Now that i'm willing to put a GM behind my Mopar in my Ford, my buddy's got the trans, lol. oh well- they still make 'em... -rick
I was gonna say.., I believe the clutch flight came first, however the case is not as strong and then theres that problem of them going off like a bomb! The clutch turbo is a better choice. I have a friend who works a McCleod, I have been trying for some time to get them to manufacture the parts again to convert turbo 400's to clutch assist as it would give them another sales venue and enabel us "Clutch Turbo Nuts" to get our fix easier. I'll keep ya posted, I'm going by McCleod this afternoon to pic up some parts and pester them some more. Ric.
I know somebody who played with one in the 90's. He played with it for a summer and then went with glide with a brake. I don't remember if he had an actual problem or if he was scared of it.
These guy's build one or you can get the parts to do it yourself. http://www.extremeautomatics.com/transmissions/clutchturbo400.html
69fury; "(I LOVE the 727-'cept for that damned roller sprag). Now that i'm willing to put a GM behind my Mopar in my Ford, my buddy's got the trans, lol. oh well- they still make 'em..." Do you think that the bolt-in-sprag will not take it? These are fascinating transmissions. Always have been interested in them. It´s funny how racers/hotrodders mix these transmissions. First these automatics with clutch and nowdays Bruno drives before lencos or libertys.
There was a thread a while ago about clutch flites. Parts are still being made. Search for that one. Valve body controls line pressure etc, so as you said some tuning required to get the shifts you want. Only issues we had was wiping out front seal if the bellhousing wasnt indexed to the trans and motor. Glad it isnt leaking yet.
I have had a clutch turbo for 30 years, it might be from JungleJim the history is a little vague. The sweet thing is if you got a problem (i never have)you just cut the bell off another th400 and bolt it up! They are good for 1K hp without anything special and i am fixing to stick a blown alcohol bigblock in front of it. That should give it a good test! I actually have the first McLoed hydraulic TO bearing for it, i believe it was developed by a guy called Red Adair(?) it was a long time ago and i had ordered the bearing as it was in thier catalog. At that time it was undeveloped and the only one they had made was in a dragster for R&D. Red gave me his phone number in his shop and i'd call from time to time and after about 3mos i was speaking with Red and he was testing the commercial version of the setup and they sent me the first one along with 6 rebuild kits and i have never needed the first one.
if there´s any swedes reading,I have a complete 727 clutch-flite setup laying around,steel bellhousing for 55-58 hemi+ B&M shorty tailhousing kit,shortens the tranny like 10". I never got around to using it,but seems like a good choice for those,like me,who are to big to use the clutchpedal every time. if I´m not mistaken,those winters guys,with the rearends,also have clutch-flite stuff.
GREAT TIP! THANKS. Talked to Paul Lee the owner of McCleod (and driver of Jim Dunn's current Fuel Funny Car)last night. He is interested also in reproducing the parts necessary to convert a 400 for clutch use. Any one want to loan theirs to McCleod, never hurts to be friendly with a great clutch etc outfit.
My old CA gasser ran a injected 427 Chevy with a 727 Clutchflight, I would like to put another one in the car and keep the 3 pedals.
I've seen too many bolt in sprags tear loose. even the SuperSprag can get wiped if you bust the rear, u joint, or driveshaft. Once she unloads, you have to disassemble and inspect that sprag. edit: actually i was mistaken in my first post- my friend got his twin clutch from McLeod, not Ram. He said the sales guy "was allllll about it!" If he takes that trans out of the car anytime soon, i'm gonna steal it, take her apart and measure everything to duplicate it myself,lol..
i always wanted one of these...worked on a chevelle that had one..the owner let me take it around the block...very neat....
I have one in my Henry J that I run on the street. To ease the banging, just use the clutch like you'd do with a stick from 1st to 2nd. From 2nd to 3rd, it don't snap your head as much. I'm using a McLeod 3 finger sintered clutch which I just replaced. Be careful - if you're going to use a new clutch, be sure the fingers will clear the "spider" when depressed as the spacing changes when the fingers are up versus depressed (they will clear when the fingers are up but may not when down). I know as I learned the hard way (& exercised many #$%&^ words under the car) and had to send the unit back to McLeod to make it right. Frustrating as it wasted time and money. They said they made mine like they've always done but it obviously didn't fit. So if you have a clutch that worked, measure the fingers first and be sure they're the same length on your new unit. The person who developed this unit is Red Roberts, the former owner of McLeod Racing. The new owner is Paul Lee as Ric mentioned. He was a bit reluctant at first but came through in the end.
some pic´s of mine... and if you´re going for a shorty kit,know that they need lots of work to be streetable,there´s machining involved and son on to fit a bushing for the yoke.
The person who developed this unit is Red Roberts, the former owner of McLeod Racing. The new owner is Paul Lee as Ric mentioned. He was a bit reluctant at first but came through in the end.[/QUOTE] Thanks, i was foggy about Red's name, it was back in the 80's when he made mine. A very smart guy, i believe he is a hall of famer and developed stuff for tilton as well.
I had a Fairbanks clutch turbo in my Willys when we first built it. Worked great but with the old sintered bronze clutch we were breaking drive line parts left & right. Tore up 3 64 Olds rear in 20 passes along with axles & u-joints. The trans never failed me though and it was alot of fun to drive. Having a limited racing budget I made the switch to a 400 with a converter.
I've just gotten my Frankland quick change rear set up- and although i'm anxious to weld the suspension mounts and put it in-i kinda feel like i shoulda spent the cash on a clutch-flite or clutch400 and just backed it up with an indestructo Dana 60...hmmmm anyone with a clutch400 wanna trade for a fresh Quickie? rick
Just got back from the PRI show in Orlando. While having dinner with and ole tranny guru friend on friday night, he says, guess what I just got done rebuilding that someone gave to me? What?, I say. A clutch turbo. Oh very cool, I always wanted one of those I say, and he says, "well then, its yours, come by the shop and get it when we get back to Cali! BITCHEN! He said that Winters transmission still has all the stuff to build one also. Not sure if this is the same Winters that sells quick changes or not.
I completely forgot to update this thread- my buddy's clutch 400 is doing well- still sorting the rest of the car, but when the shift hits and lugs the mill, that turbo just goes wild! AND..... I picked up a clutch-flite for a great price-it needs going through but the hard to find parts are there. (I fear my newly rebuilt Frankland quickchange is not long for this world, lol) The clutch flite came with a bell for a chevy, and all my friends are tempting me to put a turbo'd LS1 with efi in the falcon instead of my 415" LA mopar. It's tempting, but that's a lot of dough to spend just because i've already got the bell. I'll stick with the Dodge mill till she scatters. I have a feeling i'll be looking for a Dana 60 to replace that Frankland... rick.
My partner Billy Ellis and I ran one of the first B&M clutchflites behind an Enderle injected 336 small journal chevy,Crower roller,rev.kit,Syverson heads , this was in a '56 Vette with a straight axle and an 8 3/4" mopar 4.88 posi.It weighed 2345 without the top and windshield, so we ran it in C/A as the record in ' 68 was a 10.73 at 128. We had tried every trick with a T-10 and just couldn't make it shift with relability and were talking to Crower about running an auto. with a convertor, he comes off with this clutchflite deal,makes a couple calls and we bought the kit. Holy do-do !! That thing worked,installed a line-loc ,started launching at 6500 and hold on to your arse !We ran at the old Stardust most the time (home) . I think our best was an off the trailer 10.83 at Irwindale ,then locked a sprag but didn't lose the drum or grenade the case. Looking back, if we'd had a little less agressive clutch, more tire guess I'll never know. Yes they do work!!
I have a rebuilt Clutch-flite it's the big one with 1 1/8 input shaft verses 7/8 torque-flite. had it behind a never fired 354 Hemi. sold the Hemi buyer didn't want the trans
Maverick Performace sells the kits.It is part of Winters Performace products in York,Pa.Below are pages from there catalog. Steve <HR> <HR> <HR>