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60'-70's Vintage Oval Track Modifieds

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by john56h, Apr 11, 2007.

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  1. 37GM
    Joined: Apr 24, 2009
    Posts: 48

    37GM
    Member

    I have always wondered how in their race form would they handle the money today,am not surprised good talent in great equipment with old skool tech could keep`em alive,thanks for the memory,and Bones is right,we gotta let by-gones be gone,but how great it is to believe.
     
  2. CoolHand
    Joined: Aug 31, 2007
    Posts: 1,929

    CoolHand
    Alliance Vendor

    I'd say you could build a nice sat night modified (east cost fabricated frame type) for between $80k and $100k including the motor and the first batch of tires.

    Ten years ago, we could build an IMCA type modified (running under NASCAR sanction) for ~$25k, including a pretty hot 406 CID aluminum head engine (~700 HP, ~8,000 rpm redline) and the first batch of tires.

    Right now, you can buy a Lefthander pavement modified (IMCA type) for ~$18k rolling, a pretty decent motor for ~$12.5k, a Bert trans and driveline will run another $3k, and then add another ~$1.5k for the first batch of tires and wheels. So, call it ~$35k for a brand new race ready pavement IMCA type modified.

    I'm trying to do it with used and shop built parts for less than $6k.

    So far, I'm under budget, but behind schedule. Trying to have it ready for the 2012 season, but I might not make it.
     
  3. BKHRS
    Joined: Jun 15, 2009
    Posts: 73

    BKHRS
    Member

    Kudos to Randy Pemberton, for his shout out to Modifieds, Eddie and Denny and Bones at the end of Wind Tunnel tonight

    Barry
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  4. Willie41
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 45

    Willie41
    Member

    I know what you are saying CoolHand, I'm doing the same & like you are still under budget But I think after my engine I'll be close. MIne is old school with a twist.
     
  5. CoolHand
    Joined: Aug 31, 2007
    Posts: 1,929

    CoolHand
    Alliance Vendor

    Mine is decidedly new school, to the point that I had considered stealthily including downforce tunnels in the big hollow door panels, but decided against it as being both technically illegal and blatantly unfair. I think I could have gotten away with it though. :D

    We'll see how it turns out.

    Hopefully I won't get my ass handed to me too badly in the first few outings while I'm getting things sorted.
     
  6. leadfoot4
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 128

    leadfoot4
    Member


    "Cool Hand", I think you understand my point completely. I'm not pointing fingers, or assigning blame. BUT, without really realizing it at the time, many classes of race cars are, or have, priced themselves out of existance.....
     
  7. CoolHand
    Joined: Aug 31, 2007
    Posts: 1,929

    CoolHand
    Alliance Vendor

    Oh yes, quite so.

    When I was 16 or 17, I was running outlaw dirt modifieds, and the top class at my home track was the open late models. HIGH dollar class, good racing, but way too much money.

    That season they started the year with 11 cars, and by the end, they only had 6 that ran every week.

    The next season, we were the top class, 'cause all but two or three late models had gone away.

    Of course, those three super well funded teams dropped down into our class and proceeded to flood IT with money like they did with the late models.

    In five more seasons, our class only saw 10-12 cars every week. It had just become too expensive to compete with those big money teams.

    Shortly thereafter, that track became a sub-division.

    I fully understand how a few big money teams can ruin a series or class (or in this case, a whole damned race track).
     
  8. Zoera
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 201

    Zoera
    Member

    New England modified racing has recently added a new 'SK Light' type modified, which theoretically would be the older 'used' car that was run sometime over the last 15/20 years but is still serviceable. These 'SK Lights' run for a minimal purse, usually 300 bucks to win, maybe fifty bucks to run a feature, and at some tracks, run used tires. Guess what? Some guys are spending 20k on a new chassis and over 10k for a motor, just to put their kid in the car to learn how to race. The learning experience usually involves several crashes with the guys who just want to compete with their low buck machines. With maybe less than half the field made up of these high-dollar 'Lights" driven by 15 year old kids, the fields are already losing cars after just a few years in existence. How are we (the generic racing community) expected to build a cost-efficient race car when a few well-healed teams are willing to spend upwards of 40k to win 300 bucks? The idea is already obsolete. Even the successful tracks are experiencing small car counts. There are probably more decent pavement race cars sitting in garages now than there are cars competing. Sad days ahead for the little guy.
     
  9. CoolHand
    Joined: Aug 31, 2007
    Posts: 1,929

    CoolHand
    Alliance Vendor

    Indeed.

    The small purses suck, and have become more or less ubiquitous.

    The ASA track I'm building my car to run at pays $300 to win and $30 to start.

    5th place pays $100, which is where I figure I gotta finish just to pay for the tow rig's fuel for the night.

    Ain't no way to make a living short track racing anymore.

    Hell, I'm not sure there's any way to make a living big track racing either, unless you're one of those guys that can land a giant sponsorship (in which case, the racing is pretty incidental to the making a living part).

    It's very sad, but I don't know any way to fix it.

    There will always be assholes in the world, and they will crap-up whatever good thing they touch.

    That is as certain as death and taxes.
     
  10. k9racer
    Joined: Jan 20, 2003
    Posts: 3,091

    k9racer
    Member

    Speaking of 15 and 14 year old children driving race cars..Ronnie Sanders said that the reason he retired was that he went to fight the driver of a car that wrecked him but when he arrived at the car it was a 14 year old child was the driver.. He then said how can you reason with a 14 year old much less kick his ass.. I guess all these daddys are living their dream thru their sons or think their kid is the next Jeff Gordon.. Sorry for the rant buy you guys understand.. Bobby..
     
  11. shamrock 3x
    Joined: Jan 7, 2009
    Posts: 126

    shamrock 3x
    Member

    Zoera / k9racer,

    Your posts sum up about 99% of the reason I haven't had a Legends car in my garage since 2005. It just wasn't fun anymore. I've since realized there are other ways (other than racing) to spend $ and have fun, so I'm now doing both. Still can't get used to having a few dollars left in my checking acct. at the end of a pay period, however. That just seems strange to me!
     
  12. big-daddy-george
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 180

    big-daddy-george
    Member
    from New York

    Funny that you mention the Legends Car. I ran one for six seasons and got tired of the rules changing for no other reason than to force you to spend money. When they first came out,it was good. Everybody was pretty much equal. Every year the bar got raised. If you didn't spend,you couldn't keep up.There's alot of them for sale on ebay every day very reasonable.
     
  13. jeaniedc
    Joined: Jul 26, 2011
    Posts: 1

    jeaniedc
    Member
    from maine

    Carl Rogers is my wife's father. Sadly he past away last April. Thanks for posting these pictures. I'm told he was quite the local legend between Beechridge & Oxford Plains Speedway! ;)
     
  14. Terry1
    Joined: Dec 28, 2009
    Posts: 99

    Terry1
    Member

    I read all the bitching about low payouts. Only 26 mods showed up for this race. It was open to all modifieds, as long as you conformed to the series you run. SK, ROC, VMS, Whelen, and so on. Only 26 cars showed up. I would say, half the field didn't have a chance. A Whelen mod won, an SK was second, and a VMS was third. So, the money was there to win.
     
  15. big-daddy-george
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 180

    big-daddy-george
    Member
    from New York

    The number 7 that's racing with the Eight ball car looks like Toronto's Ted Hogan in the Civic Center video. I own the tribute car that was built in his memory a few years ago in Toronto. There's an Eight Ball tribute car replica also, I saw it at the Hershy Pa. show quite a few times. Anybody know who has it? There's a picture of the number 7 on my site...www.weissglassspeedway.com George.
     
  16. modcrew18
    Joined: Jan 19, 2011
    Posts: 2

    modcrew18
    Member

    I still say they ruined Lancaster when they changed from that track configuration. Went there some but never enjoyed it as much as in those days. Perfect oval to a double walled bended front straight. Never liked it. Took saturdays off for years after that .
     
  17. big-daddy-george
    Joined: Feb 10, 2008
    Posts: 180

    big-daddy-george
    Member
    from New York

  18. leadfoot4
    Joined: May 5, 2010
    Posts: 128

    leadfoot4
    Member

    Although I didn't venture up to Lancaster too often, I know what you mean. However, the couple of times I went there when the track was in its "old" configuration, I thought it was difficult to see the cars as they went down the front straight. This was probably because I worked a lot of Saturdays in my career, and it wasn't easy to get to the track early enough to get a seat near the top of the stands.

    The "new" configuration fixed that, but created other problems.
     
  19. shamrock 3x
    Joined: Jan 7, 2009
    Posts: 126

    shamrock 3x
    Member

    Dr. John,
    That clip crom Civic Stadium was way cool. I found it interesting to see that on his way to victory (The 8-Ball coupe is Ben Lalomia of Buffalo) those that he didn't actually take out of the race, he at least hit them while going by. What kind of a reputation did Ben L. have? In the clip he kinda looks to me like he might have been the Ted Christopher of his day. Also interesting about not throwing a caution, even while a guy is in the middle of the track facing the wrong way. Sure can't accuse the promoter of dragging the show out!
     
  20. yvan lacroix
    Joined: Jul 16, 2009
    Posts: 121

    yvan lacroix
    Member

    For those who are interested, this comming week-end are the Can-Am Vintage Nationals at Autodrome Granby( Friday the 29th,Granby QC) and Airborne Park Speedway(Saturday the 30th, Plattsburg NY).

    Both tracks are hoping to make this the first of a long standing tradition. If you would like to participate in either or both races please feel free to contact me for more info, 450 775 0508.
     
  21. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY


    I do recall a picture of Merv Treichler in the car. I don't recall the race or the year. I'll have to dig out the Merv Treichler scrapbook.

    JBull
     
  22. Dr. John
    Joined: Feb 2, 2009
    Posts: 546

    Dr. John
    Member

    Tom Lalomia is on Facebook and his son (Ben's grandson) races in the 4-cyl. division at Lancaster Speedway (DTRP) and Perry Raceway (now called Wyoming County). You might look them up on race nights.
     
  23. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY

    some more Maynard Troyer in the early pinto years....

    [​IMG]


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    Maynard in his familiar #6 heading up a stout group of modifieds at Fulton: Jerry Cook #38, Richie Evans #61 and Geoff Bodine in the #99

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    Maynard at Spencer


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    another potent pack headed up by Maynard at Fulton...Sonny Seamon in the #50 added to Cook, Evans and Bodine again...there must have been some weekly racing at this facility!!!!


    [​IMG]


    Troyer and Bodine


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    double trouble! 2 cars at a big race probably.....wonder who drove the other one? Sonny Seamon?


    [​IMG]



    looks like Martinsville alongside the Mason #45 (probably Satch Worley this year...73? 74?) and Gil Hearne in the Tom Durkin #12 (Maynard Troyer's car from the year before...they may have been Maynard's earliest customers)


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    looks like Maynard leading Dick Clark in his 16x 'Cuda, Don Diffendorf in the S/360 and I'm not sure of the 56 (Gary Iulg?)

    [​IMG]
     
  24. shamrock 3x
    Joined: Jan 7, 2009
    Posts: 126

    shamrock 3x
    Member

    JBull,
    I don't believe the #56 in your last post is Gary Iulg. It looks like a Soney Seamon built car to me, so I'm guessing maybe Norm Moyer or Ralph Holmes, who were both from closer to Sonney's home base.
     
  25. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY

    Back to Charlie Jarzombek in his early years...


    CJ in a skirmish with George Tet in the (Gesha girl) #9


    [​IMG]



    This looks like an early version of the offset coupe. Not sure how offset this one was or if there was more than one version of this car...the numeral is not the big fat #1 yet and the hood and fenders look different than some later photos....in the pits at Islip

    [​IMG]

    on the track at Islip...


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    not sure what track this is? A dirt surface? maybe an all star race


    [​IMG]


    at Islip again


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    a Fred Smith photo...I believe from Langhorne...

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    in the pits not sure where....


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    Charlie and Fred Harback sharing a laugh in their All Star Racing League Helmets...

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    Charlie J going to the outside like he always did to pass Jim Hendrickson in the Tony Ferrente X3 Mustang and Fred Harbach in the #18 of Butch Meceika at Islip....

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    Charlie coming down the pit ramp at Islip....


    [​IMG]
     
  26. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY

    Charlie J at Islip in the unnumbered white coupe battling the #04 of ?, the 8x of George Peters? and the Chevy II of Gene Siuzdak?


    [​IMG]


    Charlie J in the #1 battling with Gary Winters in the #380 and Bobby Holmberg in the Meade #9a...wonder if these are George's photos....


    [​IMG]


    Charlie J in the pits at Islip....maybe for an All Star Race....I see the #00 of Buzzie Ruetemann off to the far right...not an Islip Regular or an asphalt regular....

    [​IMG]


    Charlie J at Islip tryin to run down the #11 coach of Frank Curtis


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    Charlie at Islip


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    in the pits at Albany Saratoga maybe?



    [​IMG]


    Charlie J on the outside again battling Jim Hendrickson in the Ferrente X3 Camaro at Islip...notice no window nets and no driving uniforms..looks like they are both in t-shirts


    [​IMG]


    with Pops at Islip....


    [​IMG]


    in vicory lane at Islip...


    [​IMG]


    in the pits


    [​IMG]
     
  27. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY

    a page or two back I believe someone posted something about Plattsburg...I beleive this fellow raced there back in the day...Brian Ross...I though he was a Canadien...like the gentlemen he replaced in the Emerick Associates #50 Dennis Giroux....


    [​IMG]


    Brian Ross in his own #73 vega at Freeport back in the early 70's....


    [​IMG]


    an original shot of Brian on the pit ramp at Islip during the 73 or 74 All Star 300 when I was a young kid

    [​IMG]


    Ross after a heavy wreck at Martinsville

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    Ross at Trenton in the Garbarino #4 battling Anthony Ferraiuolo

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    in the pits (I'm not sure where) with the Armstrong #1 behind him and possibly the Jarzombek #1 alongside

    [​IMG]


    in the Garbarino Pinto at speed


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    at Martinsville way on the outside in the Garbarino Mystic Missile....

    [​IMG]


    Brian Ross at Stafford in the Garbarino Mercury Lynx battling the #711 of Bob Polverari and the #44 of Reggie Ruggiero

    [​IMG]


    Ross in the middle of some carnage at Stafford....


    [​IMG]
     
  28. RABs32
    Joined: Nov 14, 2009
    Posts: 807

    RABs32
    Member
    from new jersey

    JBull,This looks like one of my fathers shots I posted here a awhile ago. It was at Middletown going into the 3rd turn,if I remember right it might of been a midweek allstar race......Rich
     
  29. RABs32
    Joined: Nov 14, 2009
    Posts: 807

    RABs32
    Member
    from new jersey

    Heres the shot I was talking bout......
     

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  30. JBull
    Joined: Nov 19, 2008
    Posts: 366

    JBull
    Member
    from NY


    Thanks, Rich.

    JBull
     
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