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History Hold on to your Craftsman tools...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Deuces, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. Nope - Bad Info there^^

    Craftsman is a line of tools and lawn and garden equipment controlled by Sears Holdings Corporation; the brand is owned by KCD IP, LLC, a special purpose entity created by Sears Holdings for securitization purposes.
    The tools are sold in Sears, Kmart, and Orchard Supply Hardware stores (all three owned by Sears Holdings), as well as Fastenal, US military Army and Air Force Exchange Service stores, Summit Racing, and Ace Hardware. They are also now sold at "The Craftsman Experience," the brand's retail venue in downtown Chicago.
    General hand tools have been made by a variety of manufacturers over the years including New Britain, Moore Drop Forge, Stanley, Easco Hand Tools, and most recently the Danaher Corporation (wrenches, ratchets, and sockets) and Western Forge (screwdrivers, pliers, and adjustable wrenches). Danaher is just one of the current manufacturer's but they do not "Own" any part of the company or tool line, nor is Craftsman a division of Danaher..
     
  2. dabirdguy
    Joined: Jun 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,404

    dabirdguy
    Member Emeritus

    I have some Tiawan tools that look and proform look US made stuff. SOME. Damn few.

    Clik said:
    "As far as I know, we haven't lost any jobs. We just went from making buggy whips to computer chips and space ships. "

    DUDE your head is buried so far up your arse you can't even see thru your bellybutton. Check the local auctions for tooling, and manufacturing shops closing down ANYWHERE. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are now gone. We GAVE AWAY our manufacturing advantage. THEN we did away with the tarriffs that made the playing field fair.

    As for computer chips...NONE of them are made here anymore. AND they are trying to outsource the programming as well.
     
  3. gibraltar72
    Joined: Jan 21, 2011
    Posts: 260

    gibraltar72
    Member
    from Osseo Mi.

    Wow someone has drunk the kool aid Free trade agreements have by and large brought this country to its knees. Free trade is not fair trade. We have offshored nearly all production and must now compete with child labor and third world economies. Free trade has been great for CEOS American workers not so much. More are on the way Korea very soon. Usually all CAPS means even though I'm wrong I can yell louder. The sad thing is because of the disregard of old monopoly laws many of our great companies have been merged out of existence. Bigger isn't often better usually a large company merges with another chews up the assets then spits them out. In my area many good companies were absorbed just so they could be closed so as not to compete.
     
  4. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,753

    Deuces

    ..... And the fat cats are livin' it up..... Sad! :(
     
  5. koolkemp
    Joined: May 7, 2004
    Posts: 6,005

    koolkemp
    Member

    They went tits up here in Canada years ago......
     
  6. racer32
    Joined: Sep 22, 2007
    Posts: 745

    racer32
    Member

    Craftsman tools have gotten to the point that they're not worth buying anyway. Went to trade a busted ratchet the other day, and the replacement was a piece of Chinese junk that looked like it came from Harbor Freight-cmplete with plastic switch to reverse direction. I kept the broken one, and will try to find a kit to replace the gears instead.
     
  7. Pops1532
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 544

    Pops1532
    Member
    from Illinois

    I have a Craftsman brake bleeder wrench that was made in Japan. I was not happy when I saw that, but Sears was the only place open when I needed that wrench so i went ahead and bought it. I remember complaining to the clerk about paying $6.81 (incl tax) for a Japanese POS. That was around 1981.
     
  8. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,753

    Deuces

    Next time I go Sears, I'm gonna have to check this out for myself... I been in the tool dept. and not once did I see a Craftsman tool say "made in Japan or china".... Not by me anyway... I've seen the Companion line of tools they sell which are made in china, but I stay clear away from those things....
     
  9. wizzard23
    Joined: Dec 12, 2009
    Posts: 733

    wizzard23
    Member

    Just tried taking a pic of one of my Japanese Craftmans. Poor photo,can't see the Japan part good enough. Anyway, end wrench says CRAFTMAN on one side, CHROME MOLYBDENUM BF JAPAN on the other. Sorry I could'nt get a good pic.
     
  10. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,753

    Deuces

    Thanks for trying wizzard!! :) Anyone else have those????
     
  11. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    Even if there are less jobs in some sectors, it's sort of like not having a hundred people in a field picking cotton because we now have one man in a machine that does that. Should we do away with the machine in order to create more jobs? Certainly we would become less prosperous as a country if we did. The cotton picker might not see it that way but as long as the cotton picker has only third world skills to offer...The cotton picker needs to learn how to operate the machine.

    "Since there is no moral argument for preventing one person from trading with another, anti-traders shift their argument to a patriotic appeal such as suggesting that we're losing our manufacturing sector. That doesn't square with the facts. According to a report given by Dr. William Strauss, senior economist for the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, titled "Is U.S. Losing Its Manufacturing Base?" the answer is no. In each of the past 60 years, U.S. manufacturing output growth has averaged 4 percent and productivity growth has averaged 3 percent. Manufacturing is going through the same process as agriculture. In 1900, 41 percent of American workers were employed in agriculture; today, only 2 percent are and agricultural output is greater. In 1940, 35 percent of workers were employed in manufacturing jobs; today, it's about 10 percent. Again, because of huge productivity gains, manufacturing output is greater.
    The decline in manufacturing employment is not limited to the U.S. Since 2000, China has lost over 4.5 million manufacturing jobs. In fact, nine of the top 10 manufacturing countries, which produce 75 percent of the world's manufacturing output (the U.S., Japan, Germany, China, Britain, France, Italy, Korea, Canada, and Mexico), have lost manufacturing jobs but their manufacturing output has risen.
    Despite the pretense of being a free trade nation, the U.S. has significant barriers to trade that come in the form of tariffs, quotas and steep regulatory barriers. Our restrictions are just not as onerous as many other countries but there's a push to make them so. It's simple politics. The people who face foreign competition, say management and workers in the auto industry, are well organized, have narrowly shared interests and the resources to have considerable clout in Washington to get Congress to enact trade barriers. Restricting foreign competition means higher prices for their products, and hence higher profits and fuller employment in their industry. The people who are benefited by foreign competition, say auto consumers, have widely dispersed interests; they are not organized at all and have little clout in Washington. You never see consumers descending on Washington complaining about cheap prices for foreign products; it's always domestic producers who do the complaining.
    The relationship between prosperity and economic freedom, including free trade, is a no-brainer. But if you need hard evidence, check out the Heritage Foundation's "Index of Economic Freedom". You'll find that nations having the greatest measure of economic freedom are the most prosperous and peaceful".





    Walter E. Williams

    Dr. Williams serves on the faculty of George Mason University as John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics and is the author of More Liberty Means Less Government: Our Founders Knew This Well.

     
  12. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,731

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    First go Read This First!
    Pay attention to ...

    Rules:
    1. No profanity in subject lines
    2. No political/religious/racial posts
    3. No Porn.
    4. All personal information listed on this board is private and protected. The HAMB does not sell this information and you are not privy to use it for your own reasons. Test us on this one and we will bite.
    5. New Users must fill out thier profiles. Every bit that you can. Simply click on "User Cp" above and get to work.
    6. New users must introduce themselves in the intro forum.
     
  13. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    OK, so the whole thread is out of line with the rules. My appologies. I guess we could take the tool discussion over to Community/Social Groups/Conservative Political Discussion.
     
  14. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,731

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Some of it. But they didn't post their bullshit in purple to attract attention.
     
  15. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    The purple was sort of a ref to Da Bird who said I had my head up my arse. Check out the color of his icon.
     
  16. jdanielshea
    Joined: May 4, 2011
    Posts: 32

    jdanielshea
    Member
    from Denton, TX

    Oh yeah, just like the Enron management folks played straight with their employees!
     
  17. b-rod10
    Joined: Nov 24, 2010
    Posts: 15

    b-rod10
    Member

    As long as Craftsmen tools are built in the U S Of A I don't care if I buy them at a pawn shop, or a kmart better that that china crap. Don't worry about them going under unless you buy that china crap. Support the USA even if it cost you a buck or two.
     
  18. Clik
    Joined: Jul 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,965

    Clik
    Member

    ZMAN seems to think we are out of line with the rules here, and he's probably right. The moderators are liable to get us. I think we can take it to Community/Social Groups/Conservative Political Discussion though. Just mentioning a preference for one country over another could be construed as political, I suppose.

    Rules:
    1. No profanity in subject lines
    2. No political/religious/racial posts
    3. No Porn.
    4. All personal information listed on this board is private and protected. The HAMB does not sell this information and you are not privy to use it for your own reasons. Test us on this one and we will bite.
    5. New Users must fill out thier profiles. Every bit that you can. Simply click on "User Cp" above and get to work.
    6. New users must introduce themselves in the intro forum.
     
  19. 55kustomzombie
    Joined: Jun 18, 2010
    Posts: 27

    55kustomzombie
    Member

    Gotta agree snap on tools are great, but pricey none the less.

    Not saying craftsman sucks as I own some as well, but quality dosent compare imo
     
  20. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,753

    Deuces

    Not bad for a new guy!!! :) I like the way you think... :cool:
     
  21. Mathius
    Joined: Jun 7, 2011
    Posts: 34

    Mathius
    Member

    Dude, seriously... I know I'm new here, but let it go. I'm sure that's the exact reason why that stuff is banned because people get too damn opinionated. Let it go.

    Anyways, back on topic. I don't know if it would bother me if craftsman went out of business. They're doing it to themselves. The tools I bought 5 years ago last longer than the ones they're selling now. I've had screwdrivers break the first day I had them on the job and as many people have pointed out their ratchets just aren't good. They don't always cycle like they're supposed to, they go out of gear, etc. Even a sears hardware doesn't carry much to begin with. Ever try finding a decent tool pouch?

    Honestly I'm much happier with the stanley tools I've bought. The only thing craftsman has going for it is the fact that you can return them. HF's tool quality continues to get better as well. I can't remember the last time I saw a snap on truck or a mac tools dealer. They must be hiding at the auto repair places. I guess they don't want people to have access to their tools. That's why they have to charge an arm and a leg for them.

    Mathius
     
  22. gibraltar72
    Joined: Jan 21, 2011
    Posts: 260

    gibraltar72
    Member
    from Osseo Mi.

    Don't come here to discuss politics but when someone starts spouting absolute bullshit it should be ok to respond not just let the turd lay there as if it is gospel. Anyone who thinks we make computer chips and space ships in US is sadly mistaken, and any argument based on what American heritage foundation has to say is pure corporatist crap.
     
  23. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,753

    Deuces

    I ran out of popcorn...... DAMN IT! :mad:
     
  24. Until I see a picture of them, yes you are. I have heard this more than once and they always turn out to be "Companion" tools. Sears yes, Craftsman no.
     
  25. jdanielshea
    Joined: May 4, 2011
    Posts: 32

    jdanielshea
    Member
    from Denton, TX

    A lot of talk of tools, USA made, retailer rumors and just plain chatter. Here is my two cents of info:
    Many of the brands talked about here in previous posts really don't exist anymore in the sense that we remember them in our "youth". To stay competitive, every tool company and every brand has made drastic changes in how they manufacture and distribute their products. And that includes manufacturing overseas (China and other places).

    Conglomeration of the tool manufacturing business:
    Danaher ia a major player. Prior to '84 they were a realestate holding company. They switched to being a "turn around" investor of primarily tool comapnies. Over time their main focus has switched to measuring, sensing and movement instruments, example Fluke Instruments. For that reason they recently created a new subsidiary company with Cooper Industries called APEX Tool Group. Their data is on the web.
    Tool lines include, just to name a few: Allen, Armstrong, Blackhawk, Proto, Cresent, K-D, Jacobs Chuck, GearWrench, Lufkin, Nicholson, Weller, Wiss and Sata just to name a few.

    They also contract out to make tools for other people: NAPA, Sears, Mac, Cornwell, Snap-On, Lowe's, Home Depot - yeah, just about everybody. Some of the tools are made in the USA (Armstrong), but many are imported (GearWrench). The "imported" identifier really doesn't mean anything anymore as an indicator of quality. Imported tools, regardless of where they are made, can be as good of quality as anything that was made in the states or the cheapest crap you can imagine. All retailers sell multiple lines of products. The different lines will offer various levels of quality so as to offer a tool that most anyone can afford. Many times someone will buy the cheapest tool available and then is disappointed by the lack of quality. That lack of quality should not be license to lambast the whole line or retailer. How much tool quality someone is willing to pay is a personal choice.

    In today's world, quality means two things: manufacturing specs and distribution chain.
    Manufacturing specs: Some overseas plants are wholely owned by the manufacturing company and they control everything vertically. Some companies have products manufactured to their specs by a plant that they DO NOT own. And lastly, some companies simply farm out ALL aspects for a tool from design to manufacturing to cut the price to the cheapest available cost.

    That is why WHO you buy from is as important as what you buy. You should always go with the the retailer that is the biggest and has the most outlets. They will have more buying power and probably the best customer relations department. You must remember that every tool truck retailer is his own independent company. If you didn't buy the tool from him why should he care to help you out? If you contact the corporation, most times they will simply tell you to find another tool truck retailer, thus a catch-22.

    You say, isn't that the same for a NAPA store as most of them are independently owned? Not really. They are part of a huge distribution network with many levels of decision-making. If you don't get satisfaction from the store you can call the area distribution center or the corp. headquarters to get hold of the selling group responsible for your concern and I can GARANTEE that someone from there will call you soon. I know this for a fact as it is my job! The other tool retailers, where all of the stores are owned by the company: AZ, OR, ADV ect...., will all have most of the same policies to try as best they can to satisfy the customer. Business 101: It is always easier to keep a customer that to make a new one.

    So much of the business world is being "corporatized and conglomerated". My advise is to buy products for people you know, people you trust and people that care about what they do. The H.A.M.B. O'Dex and Alliance Vendors are a great place to start.
     
  26. jdanielshea
    Joined: May 4, 2011
    Posts: 32

    jdanielshea
    Member
    from Denton, TX

    DUH! That is their customer base!
     
  27. Mathius
    Joined: Jun 7, 2011
    Posts: 34

    Mathius
    Member

    I understand that, but they're obviously making no attempt to expand to the casual customer, and as long as the mechanics continue to pay the high prices, they're not going to. I enjoy wrenching, but I don't do it often enough that I'm going to cater to them. I'll buy from someone else.

    Mathius
     
  28. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,731

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Then don't bitch about wanting good quality tools. Tools that last a lifetime these days cost... keep on with the disposable crap.
     
  29. Mathius
    Joined: Jun 7, 2011
    Posts: 34

    Mathius
    Member

    Wow, seriously? That's what you got out of that.

    Point is, craftsman USED to make quality tools, not disposable crap, and I don't have to hunt down a snap on or mac tool truck to get quality tools because the other brands are making better and better stuff. We're not the only ones who see the decline of craftsman. The other manufacturers are working hard to fill their market space.

    Mathius
     
  30. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,731

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Yeah, that's what I got from it. Quality is not cheap, and as long as people don't want to pay for quality they won't get it. You can order all day from snapon.com if you can't find a truck, but you'll moan and whine about the prices. And sorry but there is no substitute for the quality you get from SnapOn, Mac, Cornwell, or Matco. Not Kobalt, not Stanley, none of the big box store stuff comes close.
     

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