460 swap into my 58 fairlane.. need help fellas!

i really do suck at describing my wiring terminology... ill try going over to my grandmas tomorrow and messing around with it myself, my dad pretty much straight up told me this evening he knows nothing about wiring and that its best if i do it because he doesnt know what he's doing.... that makes me feel not so good cuz i know nothing about wiring


i had my starter solenoid OFF the fender, it was just resting on top of it. my ignition ballast resistor is not on the firewall, dunno if thats important or not. i have no wires on my coil right now too, nothing. we were just bypassing it today i think my dad said.

if i sound dumb sorry..

but yeah if im just trying to turn the key to get it to bump over, or touching a wire to the solenoid and it sparks and trying to get it to crank over that way, shouldnt the starter still be spinning? or should the solenoid be bolted up to the inside of my fender?

i have a massive headache and im really stressed about this, its deja vu with my yblock. i have a thread on here that has 124 replies cuz i couldnt figure out the wiring.. help a kid out with this one :/

 

Do you have one or two small posts on the solenoid? Some of them were internally grounded and had to be bolted solid to the body or you wouldn't get a ground. I work with both types on generators, a good ground is the first thing to verify. If the solenoid cannot pull in you won't get a connection across the main (big) contacts and no spinnee da motor.
Do you have a voltmeter? One way to verify the solenoid is working is to energize it and see if you have battery voltage on both big posts. With the solenoid not energized you'd have battery voltage on only one side. If the solenoid is working you'll read battery voltage on both posts.

 

well now i own both types of solenoids. i went out and bought one off the year truck my motor came out of, a 78. it has one small post.

the one on my '58 that we were using today has both posts, the 's' and the 'i' terminals.

my dad kept tellin me that it doesnt matter if my solenoid is on my fender or not, the starter should still engage and turn. he was touchin both posts with the screwdriver, got nothin.. ill try it out tomorrow morning and see if thats it.

i think i just need a hi res picture of someone's 460, with little captions about what wires are what and where they go :/

 

The "s" post is connected to the ignition switch, the "i" post goes to the ballast resistor. The solenoid should be bolted securely to the body to ensure good ground.

 

well latley i havent been getting sleep cuz of the excitement over my progress on this thing, i wake up every morning at 4:47am, without an alarm, no matter how late i go to bed. so when i wake up tomorrow (this time due to stress probably) i'll make sure i take all the notes im jottin down, go to my grandmas, try out everything myself. if all fails, i'll take a video for you guys of what im doing. im definatley a student right now, and just about every single hamber is my teacher, so im determined to get this down

 

the internet is your friend-

http://www.americanstreetmasters.com/wiring_101.htm

Watch the diagram in the link above, the starter soleniod is backwards...

http://www.mustangandfords.com/tech...ignition_systems_basic_concepts/photo_01.html

This is a basic Ford ign/ start wiring, poke around on the internet for an hour or so, or make friends with someone who knows auto wiring, lure them over with free pizza and you should be golden...

 

GUYS! okay so my dad said he had a dream and his dad (my grandpa) was in it, and told him something....

okay, so call me crazy, this may not be right... but me and my dad just got done doing a little test outside involving the starter off my 460, and my mom's 88 tempo and some jumper cables.


he hooked the jumper cables to the starter, grounded the starter, and made contact with it. the starter didnt do anything.... then, my dad held the jumper cable against the starter... IT SPUN! - BUT.... suuuuuppper slow. it was using a ton of juice from the battery, it almost made my mom's car die pretty much. we followed the diagram correctly in one of my dad's mechanic books, it was set up perfectly.


thats when my dad told me in his dream, he was told that the starter off the 78 ford f250, MIGHT be meant for a truck with dual batteries... he said i had the issue with the oil pan and i had to get a passenger sump, well this time he thinks i need to ask for like, a 73 lincoln 460 c6 starter instead.

so could this be an issue??? ahhhh i hope this might be it, i really wanna test this out but i work today, dunno if i'll have time to make it to the auto store, then get over to my grandmas to try it

 

OK here's some pictures of my starter circut. The large red wire comes from the Batery and the black wire goes to the starter, the small wire on the terminal closest to the red wire is from your start switch. Adn another view of a starter circut on an engine I have out of the car, A little different but basically the same. The solonoids need to be grounded to work.Best I can do with out a person to person talk.
Good luck, Mike

 

those pics are great mike, thanks alot! gotta head to work in less than an hour, but tomorrow morning i'll head to my grandmas first thing to try out everything. i also am taking those wiring diagrams too, thanks for the links mj. and trust me i've been googling wiring diagrams for days now. i have no social life, im on the computer all the time.. so i just search for this stuff all day..

but i should mention we tried another starter bench test with my mom's battery and jumper cables.

my dad tried his starter off his 390 c6, out of a 76f250, it wouldnt spin over either...
tried it again with my starter, with a new solenoid my dad bought... didnt spin over...
had my old 292 yblock starter layin around, tried that, the thing spun right over!
got me and my dad scratchin our heads.

we'll figure it out im sure, in the meantime just bear with me as i attempt to learn this stuff :/

 

MJ, those are really good links, esp the 2nd one. LUCCRR, take a picture of your starter for me.

 

Hey bud! It's been a couple of years since you did the Y-block swap. So now you are swapping a 460 into the 58. Looking good so far. Is the carb surface of the intake level? Better be or you are looking at some gas leaks and carb malfunctions.

Now to the wiring. WIRING, TAKE 2! Ok, you need the solenoid (or starter rel as I put it) mounted to the fender, and the fender NEEDS TO BE GROUNDED. Wire the battery cable to the big post of the solenoid and stop there. Do not wire in the big cable (going to the starter) to the other big post of the cable.

Now with the battery leads properly connected (neg from battery to the ground to the fender ground) touch a jumper wire from the solenoid post (that has the positive battery cable attached) to the S terminal on the solenoid. You should hear a click. If you don't then the solenoid is not operating correctly. (REMEMBER: THE BIG POST NEAREST THE "S" TERMINAL IS THE BATTERY POST ON THE SOLENOID) This is when you need to get the solenoid working first. Once you get the CLICK, then wire the starter lead to the other big post and again try the jumper from battery post to "S" terminal. (AND MAKE SURE THAT THE ENGINE BLOCK HAS THE NEG CABLE FROM THE BATTERY MOUNTED TO THE ENGINE SECURELY. The fender should be grounded to the engine block using a braided ground strap. Good idea to do that to the frame and firewall also.) Hopefully this will crank the starter. Good luck. Any more help with wiring let me know.

 

It sure sounds like you have a ground problem to me. The dual battery thing means nothing, get that out of your head. Make sure everything is bolted in as it should be. If you use some sort of jumper box, GROUND it to the block or something, not to the negative terminal... I understand your frustration, but take your time, and make sure everything is hooked up correctly and properly grounded,. Chances are, your problems are simple...

 

well........ i got it lol. man i feel dumb, i grounded and did everything you guys told me to do. my dad had to get an epidural shot in his back this morning so he couldnt help me with the wiring, but its okay because i've been doing everything on this project so far by myself! ha and i LOVE knowing i got it myself! i felt really accomplished. i took everyones advice, and wrote down everyones stuff, cuz my printer doesnt work.. so i took the notes over there and followed them, but thanks, and d2 willy's you helped me with the yblock years ago, and how you worded that just made everything click in my head, have no idea why? but it just did lol.

i took a video, its uploading now (takes forever..) ill post it later. tomorrow ill start it up. gonna close up some vaccuum lines, buy the proper bolts and bolt everything up to the fenders, buy some hoses, fuel filter, etc. then i'll turn the key tomorrow and cross my fingers!

 

tomorrow *crosses fingers* hopefully is finally the day... unlike my yblock which i had a hard time figuring out the firing order and all that stuff, this time around SHOULD BE easier!

 

Good deal! I bet you learned alot about that electrisical stuff huh? (Its really magic but don't tell anyone. ) Looking forward to tomorrows post & video!

 

Good job!

One step closer!

 

Cool deal, bud. Glad to help. Next time when you put that big aircraft engine in the 58 you will know how to wire up that nasty solenoid. LOL. Good luck with firing her up!

 

Great to see how far you have got with your 58 but my bro thinks he mite of freak you out with his last message sorry he just glad he is sober

 

well unfortunatley i just got home with no luck. i went over there by myself again today, i wanted my dad's help because i really dont know how to start it start it... (firing order could be off, a missing wire or something, hooking up the fuel lines to the carb, there were a few lines coming off that carb, i didnt know what went where :/)

i tried turning it over and it struggled, poured a little gas in the carb and it spit it out. i just stopped after that, i didnt wanna mess something up on accident, so now i gotta wait until tuesday probably, my next day off work

i just started to take the seats out of my interior today, im gonna take the dash out too (new rebel wiring harness is coming soon), and i tried taking the front drums off too, but those damn things are stuck on there real good (doing the disc brake swap).



...*HUGE SIGH*, guess today wasnt the day. maybe next week..

 

Cool project! I hope you get it all sorted out!

 

Rebel wire harness? Oh, no, more wiring! Maybe you should've got a PAINLESS wire harness, just kidding! Well I am ready for your wiring questions when you start to tackle the wiring harness stuff.

 

Good thing about a Rebel wiring harness is the thorough wiring diagram, not to mention the construction of the harness itself. I bought one for my '51 F1 and checked it out after it arrived. Very well put together and it'll be a snap to install.

 

well im in the process of writing down all the important stuff i need to buy AFTER i get it fired up to know that it at least runs. (which should be tomorrow), im trying to stick to the components i need for the front end at least, so i can get it all back together.

i already got the wiring harness shipped and its on its way, but those headers from crites are number 1 for me.. i really need those but i love my '58 slammed to the ground, it already sits a good 3 inches off the ground i'd say, but from what i hear my headers will go under the crossmember and i'll have to raise it.

is there a way around this, or has anyone used their headers and can give me an estimate on how far off the ground they are? i have 3 speed bumps i gotta go over in my mobile home park, i'd hate to hit them but i really dont wanna raise it :/

 

Did you happen to check out anything Sanderson has? I'm using shorties on my pickup, they work great.

 

You are going to have trouble with the Crite headers and your car being that low. I had to change over to F.R.P. shorties

 

i heard the shorties are like 600 bucks? how much did you pay ecode? that was the only thing i really liked about the crites headers.. they were cheap. (their shipping though takes a long time which is why i was going to order them soon, now knowing they wont really work with a lowered stance will save me a headache or two).

 

super bummed today :/
had my dad come with me and we got everything all nice and ready to start it up..
well, we tried, and tried. double checked the timning, the firing order, everything. it really sounded like it wanted to, but it just didnt. we tried gas in the carb, all it did was backfire it. but then we noticed it was super wet around the gaskets of the carb. it unsuspectedly rained sometime last week and my carb did sit outside and i forgot about covering it cuz it was sunny the day before!

either way, i think its better i get a new carb anyway. and a new intake manifold with no EGR stuff on it.

priced them today at o reilly's. the edelbrock 1406 carb is 300 bucks while the intake manifold that went with it was 280. i still need to get some fuel line and go to a radiator shop, also purchase a fan, and while im at it, get some brake line too, just to finish up all the stuff under the hood while i have the fenders off...

so yea, a bit pricey. i already have about 700 bucks charged onto my credit card as is... and my i refuse to go under 4k in my bank account (which im sitting at right now, just in case an emergancy happens and i need most of that money).


...ugh, so now im tryin to figure out ways to scroung up some cash. i do have a c4 tranny i dont need, it was off a mustang, also got me a fordomatic 2 spd rebuilt tranny i got from desertrodder off here in palmdale. have a few misc. yblock parts, and the actual bare block itself. ive been tryin to sell the stuff for months with no avail. i think i finally reached a roadblock and now have to just wait, save up some paychecks, then move on with getting the necessary parts

 

Two things: Tell me more about the C4. What year Mustang is it from and what was it hooked to? Been looking for one for awhile, but need a V8 type with 157 tooth flexplate. This would be the small V8 bell housing. PM me with the particulars, maybe we can make a deal.

The other thing is about your headers. I was looking at FPA (fordpowertrain.com) and they sell shorties for your application. I was also looking at Doug's headers that are known as block huggers. You may want to investigate these for your application

 

Get an intake from Ebay. You can get one for 150 or so.

 

Are your spark plugs new? Fouled plugs will give you the "tried to run" problem. If they're questionable replace 'em. I've had that happen more than once. Also make sure you have a good blueish-white arc at the plug.