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292 6 cyl help . Why do my rods hit the cam ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by RobsHemiA, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. RobsHemiA
    Joined: Jan 25, 2007
    Posts: 110

    RobsHemiA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey all . Ive been rebuilding my 292 Chev , and after installing the new cam , the rod caps hit the cam . I bought it from Clifford's , who have essentially told me im crazy after I emailed them with the issue . I spent $2400 with them and they have not given me any help at all . This is the cam
    http://www.cliffordperformance.net/..._Code=CP&Product_Code=9C21&Category_Code=C250

    After looking at my stock 292 cam , I have noticed the fuel pump lobe is in a different place , and the stock cam has flats machined into it for the rods to pass by . The rod caps hit the fuel pump lobe and the cam core itself . Cliffords advertised this as a 292 cam , but i now believe its for a smaller Chev 6 . Cliffords refuse to listen to me and keep telling me it doesnt need machining to fit the 292 , but it clearly does . What can I do ? I shouldnt have to pay to have this thing machined , and Im too far away to just drop it back . Anyone else experienced this ?
     
  2. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    I am no authority on these engines, though I am aware of some it's characteristics. With the cam lobe location, I would agree with your suspicion about it being for a 194,230,250 vs a 292. Who have you spoken with at Cliffords? I mean have you asked to speak to a Supervisor or General Manager?

    I am apalled that they would just blow off your concerns. I intend to follow this thread and wish you the best with a resolution. Wish I could offer more assistance.

    Ray
     
  3. RobsHemiA
    Joined: Jan 25, 2007
    Posts: 110

    RobsHemiA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have spoken to Larry twice . Im just reading Leo Santucci's book and it is definately the smaller motor cam , no question about it . He shows both cams and the differences between them , and the fuel pump lobe location is a dead giveaway . Im not happy with this whole situation , as now I will have to either pay to machine the flats and fuel pump lobe , or buy another cam , which may involve changing valve springs again as they came with the cam .
     
  4. fossilfish
    Joined: Dec 16, 2010
    Posts: 320

    fossilfish
    Member
    from Texas

    Yep, you got the wrong cam. Happened to me too. The very same deal. Only the guys at Clifford took it back and ground another cam from the right stock for me. I am sure all the old guys that knew anything about these engines are long gone from there
     

  5. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    I was never all that happy with Clifford after they tried to shine on a problem I was having with their valve springs and retainers on a 235 Chevy,but that was 15 year ago.
    Delta Cams in Wa. has many grinds for 1/3 the money.Comp Cams Isky,and many other known cam grinders have a lot grinds on new cores for half the money...just saying....
     
  6. RobsHemiA
    Joined: Jan 25, 2007
    Posts: 110

    RobsHemiA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I dont know what to do now . I already put my new timing gear on it , plus installed their springs and retainers . I might cut it in half and mail it back with a nice letter .
     
  7. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for a company to ignore such an obvious mistake on their part. I can understand that many suppliers get complaints from customers who are, shall we say, a bit challenged when it comes to correct installation or use of some equipment and are somewhat defensive. But this situation is pretty clear cut. Certainly colors my image of Clifford and I have a 300 Ford and a couple 292 Chevs in search of the right project.

    Ray
     
  8. belair
    Joined: Jul 10, 2006
    Posts: 9,013

    belair
    Member

    They need to do you right on this.
     
  9. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Can you sell it to somebody with the smaller engine?? If it wasn't so far .... but the shipping here wouldn't be worth it. I have a 250 & a 292.

    I guess I won't be ordering my 292 cam there if they don't know the differences. I hope you get it worked out.
     
  10. Snarl
    Joined: Feb 16, 2007
    Posts: 1,639

    Snarl
    Member

    While they sent you the wrong cam, you also made the mistake of installing it. In most cases like this, the vendor wouldn't really be responsible for it becasue you used it, but I would think that in this case there could be an exception, as the difference between a 250 and 292 camshaft isn't necessarily widely known.
    If you can't get them to replace it, then the next best thing is to modify the cam and go with an electric fuel pump. Otherwise, talk to Delta cams about grinding you a 292 cam with the same specs and just swap out the cams.
    Good luck
     
  11. speakfordadead
    Joined: Mar 17, 2011
    Posts: 79

    speakfordadead
    Member

    I say we all band together and call Cliffords until they make good for this fellow HAMB'er. Coulpe hundred calls should yeild results. Rob, you should keep calling until you get to talk to someone who want's to work with you. If it's the wrong core it's the wrong core, not your problem. Send it back and tell them you want what you ordered. You have a right to that in CA.
     
  12. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'd have to agree with Snarl, if they won't make it right the best course of action is to pull the cam and sell it to someone local to you and order another cam from someone else. You most likely have rodders local to you who would love to have that cam for their smaller engine. You might be able to press the cam gear off in a hydraulic press after you have it out of the engine.

    I have to go with what Traditional racing said above in post 14 along with including a scan of the invoice for the cam in your email.

    I just looked at their webpage for parts for those engines http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

    The info they give is so vague that I can see why they sent the wrong cam blank. They lump everything together and don't have cams specifically designated for 292 engines even though those of who have them know that among other things the fuel pump is in a different location.

    Do you have a copy of your original order specifying that the cam was intended for a 292? that would help your argument.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2011
  13. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,814

    BJR
    Member

    I bet if you emailed Clifford a link to this thread they would do something about making things right with you. Remember the power of the Hamb!
     
  14. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,250

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm willing to send an email or make a call on your behalf. Send me names, emails and phone numbers. I'm with Speakfordadead, and am sure there are plenty of HAMBers that would make a quick call to voice their concern. Probably wouldn't take more than a half dozen calls from folks to wake up the Clifford bums.

    As far as selling the cam to someone local, chances are that he'd have to sell it at a discounted price. Why should RobsHemiA have to take a loss on it, when it is clearly Cliffords fault?

    EDIT: BJR, that's a better idea. Surely they're aware of the HAMB, and the vast number of folks that are members.
     
  15. RobsHemiA
    Joined: Jan 25, 2007
    Posts: 110

    RobsHemiA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks guys . It was definatly meant to be a 292 cam . Im going to send them detailed pictures of the issue , and of it next to the stock 292 cam . Im glad im not going mad , because they kept telling me I was putting it in wrong ! (For the record the timing dots are lined up,but thats the least of its problems)
     
  16. fossilfish
    Joined: Dec 16, 2010
    Posts: 320

    fossilfish
    Member
    from Texas

    I just pressed the gear off and sent it back and they sent me the right one....In the future Schneider cams does a great job and does it for bout 150 bucks. They offer a good assortment of grinds. Nice guys too.
     
  17. RDR
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,480

    RDR
    Member

    leave the gear on it and sell them together...get a new gear for your 292 cam...pretty sorry excuse for a company that deals in 6=8 I'd say!
     
  18. inline 292
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 295

    inline 292
    Member

    I've never dealt with Clifford, & thanks to your experience, never will. Best wishes.
     
  19. CNC-Dude
    Joined: Nov 23, 2007
    Posts: 1,031

    CNC-Dude
    Member

    No one has sold an application 292 cam core for decades! All flat tappet cams for all of these 194-292 engines sold by all cam companies today use the 194-250 cores. Larry knows this and should have explained that you will need to use an electric fuel pump if using these cams in a 292 block(because of fuel pump lobe mismatch), and also clearance the cam barrel for rod clearance. You are fighting a loosing battle in trying to play the "look at what is being said about your company" game. He is a hairdresser by trade, and only inherited the Clifford company when the founder(Jack Clifford) passed away because he married Jack Clifford's daughter, and the company is more of a burden to him, because he has absolutely no automotive backaground at all, and he really doesn't care about it. I would just grind the rod clearance and not get your blood pressure raised by trying to deal with him. Any cam you get to replace it regardless of manufacturer will have to same issues as this core, so you might as well use this one since you already have it.
     
  20. RobsHemiA
    Joined: Jan 25, 2007
    Posts: 110

    RobsHemiA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Hey CNC Dude . Im not trying to prod Larry into action . I just want what I paid for - a cam for my 292 . Larry has told me twice now that the cam doesnt need machining to fit , and that I have probably installed it wrong (!?) Im working on some pictures for him to see the issue himself , and hopefully resolve it . Im sure it will be sorted out .
     
  21. Flatheadguy
    Joined: Dec 2, 2008
    Posts: 2,037

    Flatheadguy
    Member

    A very timely thread. I was just about ready to order from Cliffords a couple of camshafts and some other bits for customer engines. Being basically the "middle man" I want no part of this situation. There are other manufacturers. Thanks to you, RobsHemiA, I am not entering into a "maybe" area for me or my shop.
     
  22. buffaloracer
    Joined: Aug 22, 2004
    Posts: 816

    buffaloracer
    Member
    from kansas

    I too am working on a couple of sixes. Hope the hair dressing is going good because I'm not going to be sending any business their way.
    Pete
     
  23. S.O.B.
    Joined: Apr 17, 2010
    Posts: 11

    S.O.B.
    Member

    If you have not put timing gears on the cam and crank, and it is not in time, it can hit the cam. The cam has flats made on it to clear when it is in time. This may be the problem. If the fuel pump lobe is in the right location, you have the right cam shaft.
     
  24. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL


    you might want to read the previous posts BEFORE commenting......the OP addressed all these issues early on :rolleyes:

    Ray
     
  25. RDR
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 1,480

    RDR
    Member

     
  26. POST HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IF HE DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT I DO RESALE AND YOU JUST TOLD ME WHO NOT TO DEAL WITH. BY THE WAY I HAVE 250s AND 292s IN MY CHEVYS
     
  27. RobsHemiA
    Joined: Jan 25, 2007
    Posts: 110

    RobsHemiA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Here are the 2 cams side by side . The new cam has the timing gear on it . The fuel pump lobe is in the wrong place for a 292 , which wouldnt be a problem with my elec pump , but the rod caps hit it , and you can see there are no flats machined into the rest of the cam and again , the rod caps hit . I've sent this pic to Larry so we'll see what happens .

    [​IMG]
     
  28. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,285

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Interesting that the 292 has that little clearance around the rod caps.

    I bought a lot of Hudson stuff back in 93 from Clifford when they were in Corona, CA. Dealed with Jack himself. Kind of arrogant SOB. His daughter (Cindy, I believe) was pretty cool though. Thought about asking her out at the time, but I think she was already married. You might want to see if you can get anywhere with her as far as this cam issue.
     

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