Unfortunately a lot of school districts look at programs with the main focus being how much federal or state funds they will generate and not with an eye on their usefulness in turning out productive young people who have marketable real world skills. There is also the educational band wagon that school administrators seem to be all too happy to hop on. The you have to go to a four year school and get a degree thinking is one of those bandwagons. Almost all vocational programs at the high school level have taken a beating for one reason or another. It may be because the state doesn't hand out the extra funds for vocational as they did up though the mid 80's or it may be because the leaders don't view hands on skills as marketable or desirable. In the town I live in there is no automotive machine shop of any kind that I know of. One of the local garages may have a valve grinding machine and a brake lathe but there is no " automotive Machine shop" in town that a guy can go to to have a block bored, head rebuilt or even have a head surfaced. Outside of the tire stores brake shops and maybe Autozone there is no place to take a brake drum or rotor that isn't part of someone's shop. That means it is a 25 mile drive East or West to get a head done or have block work done. As many on here know, I spent 13 years as a vocational auto shop instructor. I started out with 35 kids in a class for the first few years and in the late 80's it was down under 20 a lot of the time due to a lot of students being stuck into English as a second language classes because federal funds payed well for that along with a lot of kids dropping Auto Mechanics for the power lifting class that was actually a club masquerading as a PE class. The good thing about that class is that former students are strong enough to lug boxes of beef at the local slaughter house. But some of the good things that I have to look back at are that at least five of my former students have worked their way up through a regional tire store chain into management level jobs. They still work with their hands and get dirty but they have worked up the ladder several steps. One former student earned his spending money working on fellow students cars at BYU in the late 80's and early 90's while he was driving the 77 Trans Am he rebuilt from a total in the shop during his senior year including painting it with a lacquer paint job himself in the shop. We see the results of the shortages of shop classes every day here on the HAMB when a group of us tend to answer the same fairly simple questions about the same things over and over again. I'm not talking about serious hot rod subjects but basic auto mechanics that first semester auto shop students usually get. That may be simply because a lot of guys now don't get into cars as a hobby until they are a bit older and discover the hobby.
Not only run it but keep the sucker running too. Mechanical stuff wears out & breaks down. It is the nature of the beast. if you don't know which end of the screwdriver to point at the screw, how are you ever going to fix anything. Way I look at it, no matter what happens, I will get along for myself and my family. for the stuff I don't know how to do, I probably know someone who does and I can trade labor to get stuff done. Mike Rowe is a hero IMO. he gets it & what is even better is that he is a nationally recognized face that is trying to educate the ignorant masses so that they might get a clue as to the corner we are painting ourselves into.
well im just finishing up my junior year in HS and frankly im pissed at the school! our welding/ag teacher is some ditso blonde girl who knows nothing and hasnt a clue how to weld. and out basic auto teacher is a grump who i dont even talk to anymore. now my neighbor who is like 50 totally restored a 50? chevy pickup in shop classes in HS! and im building a cowl hood for my 72 gmc and i dont even have the time to get that done. and it sure dosent help that 90% of the tools in the shop are broken or unsafe! flippin 90%!!!!! but sports are sure as hell doing good! who gives a crap about sports! are the people in sports going to become athletes for their jobs? very doubtful! while the few of us that are in shop to learn about our future careers dont have the time, or the safe tools to get the job done correctly?!?! and yes people think that mechanics ect. are below them. well wake up america! the reason that were in a recession is because of nimwits like you that buy rice burners and not good old american cars that people learned how to make in highschool! theres just too many idiots out there that dont have a clue! -chad
i went to Los Angeles Trade Tech College for 2 1/2 yrs in Automotive Collision Industry. graduated on the Dean's honor roll. received a $10K Snap On Tools Scholarship in tools towards my career. also my Professors landed me a job right off the bat. started the very next day i left school. that was 19yrs ago and i love what i do. i left working on production collision to building and working hot rods, Kustoms and exotic imports. i hate wearing a suit & tie, dealing with the public (retail) BUT i love the outdoors and working with my hands. good for Mike Rowe.
Great thread! I had the experience in the small town I was living in of being rejected as a volunteer instructor at that local trade because what I knew was obsolete! I had volunteered to mentor, to any kids with an interest, about building hot rods, welding, brakes, electrical wiring, chassis etc etc. The instructor explained that there was no market for that knowledge, and no kid would be interested. When I was 17 I would have killed for such an opportunity, but the kids today don't know what they don't know. Lets face it - We have bread entire generations of cubical dwellers that actually can't do anything. Everyone is a generalist, which makes all of them a disposable commodity, just like the products we buy today. But on the bright side I think that things are circular, and emphasis on actually being able to do something will come back in vogue.
I've always worked with my hands. After going through GM training school I went into the military and when I got home the job I had at Cadillac was part time because of the GM strike, so I went and found another job at a steel mill. That job lead into maintenance job, which lead into an apprenticeship in the electrical trade. 4 yrs. later I was a journeyman electrician and did that until I retired. People were often mentioning how "overpayed" electricians were for what we did, with little or no knowledge of the education and training required to do the job. When I told them I went to 4 yrs. of school, plus on the job training to be elegible to take the state's licensing test they were shocked. Then tell them I had to take 8 hrs' of continuing education each year to qualify to renew my license and their jaws dropped. The average person doesn't know or care what it takes to fix their car, plumbing, or electrical, they just know it's too expensive and they can't do it.
Been using mine for over 40 years. Without them I would have nothing. Started out restoring furniture for a model home company. Then boats, restaurant, guitars, houses, cabinets, furniture repair. and always a car project. Still at it and probably will continue 'til I can no longer get out of bed.
I salute Mike Rowe and any man who gets dirty in the course of their daily work. It is the do'ers and not the thinkers who grease the wheels of progress. It's possibly a bit smug , but most Wall Street type guys couldn't name a single component under the hood of their exotic cars. The world will always need the do'ers. I'm not embarrassed about the dirt under my fingernails, and I work in mental health, an industry that requires a modicum of cleanliness. I'm always swimming upstream, but what is life without a little controversy. I missed the apprenticeship boat and was sentenced to a life of shovels, slashers, and any other type of implement by which I could make a living. Heavy earthmoving gear and mining was where I ended up. When I was 43 my wife suggested I apply for a position at a local Psychiatric hospital and the 'rest' is history. They pay well but my workmates are like aliens to me and to be honest I enjoy the interaction with my clients (patients) way more.My official post is 'Community support worker" I get all manner of dirty on my days off in the shed and when at work I dress in my usual manner which just happens to be a bit rough for my boss but just right for the folks I visit............. The message is when you don't have a Trade skill you are at the mercy of the ever changeing workforce....I have found a niche I can survive in but I shovelled a lot of shit to get there.........Computer geeks will only rule the world untill their car breaks down........................ Sorry to rant but I so agree with your collective sentiments on hands on occupations.
When I was an aviation electronics tech in the Navy, the techs, the metalsmiths, and the mechanics always got into pissing contests about who was more important when it came to supporting the aircraft in the squadron. The metalsmiths would say that the plane wouldn't fly without the airframe, the mechanics would say that without the engines that the airframe would just be so much scrap sitting on the deck, and the techs would say that without the radar and electronics there would be no reason to launch the aircraft. I guess my point is...you can badmouth any segment of society and call it "not as important as mine" or you can understand that we are all in this together. I congratualate Mike Rowe for his efforts to show how we as a society need the people who do the dirty jobs. BTW - for those who don't already know this, Mike Rowe is a very educated man AND he is an accomplished opera singer!
i love this thread. it also has to do with being self reliant. i dont want to be at the mercy of someone else unless they have a badge, firesuit, or a medical degree. it is my stuff and it is my responsibility to keep it going. i do not pay other people to fix anything. it was ground into me my whole life by my family that you take care of yourself and your family because no one else will. why some people do not think it is important enough to learn basic mechanical skills is pathetic, how is it ok to not be in control of your own life? thanks to mike rowe for being a public voice for us blue collars who keep this great country moving forward.
Anyone considered starting a collection to make a mass donation from the HAMB to Mike's Foundation? http://www.mikeroweworks.com/mikes-office/giving-back/mikeroweworks-foundation/ You can also support: http://www.imakeamerica.com/
I worked at a high school here in B.C. Canada, and it is the same thing. They closed the metal work shop and turned it into a studio for films and videos. How are the kids going to get any experience working with metal in any form to see if they are suited to this type of work?. Not all kids are meant to be academics, some are more likely to succeed in the trades. I think kids need to experience these trades to see if they want to continue in these fields.
I started an apprenticeship in machine shop in '76, and that was pretty much one of the last years they did that sort of thing in the UK. It was traditionally six years of training in a factory or machine shop, with one day a week at college for more technical know-how. During our first year we were proudly told that our City and Guilds qualifications would be recognised anywhere in the world as a sign of true craftsmanship and skill. We weren't just taught how to make stuff, but we learned the long process of respect and humility, how to take the rough with the smooth, how to handle the banter and ear-ache of the normal working environment. There were no 'human rights' back then and you didn't sue the foreman because he called you a lazy little bastard. But within a couple of years everything changed, computers appeared, everything was done by a keyboard, CNC, an office job, we were basically being told that unless we also did some years in school and turned out qualification into a degree we'd never have a real job. Computers were taking over the world and manual labour was a thing of the past. Within a decade there was, predictably, a shortage of skilled labour in the UK, nobody wanted to get their hands dirty. A 'skilled man' was any guy who'd done a year at college, nothing more. The car industry died, the ship industry died, the country has been in economic and industrial free fall ever since. In recent years they have realised there IS a shortage of blue collar workers, and they have now re-invented the old apprenticeship. Except now you only have to go to college for a year to become a skilled man.... Last year I went back to the college where I spent so many days learning the intricacies of machining and fabrication, welding and engineering history and theory. The huge workshop that once house two dozen lathes, a dozen mills, shapers, planers, drill presses, a forge, blacksmiths tools, is now devoid of dust or dirt, and laid out with 50 computer terminals......
Thanks for posting those. My father attended Conelley, class if '57. After studying electronics and TV repair there he went on to have a 30 year career with Bell of Pennsylvania. He was definitely not cut out for the office environment; nor am I really.
That's a stand up guy!! Thanks!!!With me being a apprentice in a skilled trade for local 30 union(sheet metal). Every day I go to work I think about going back to school to get a "white collar job". I do make decent money but not enough to buy a house. Sent from my iPhone using TJJ
thanks Mike !I teach high school collision repair and can testify about the lack of funding and lack of respest for trade skills.If this is going to change it will take us busted knuckle ,dirty finger nail types to do it.Having high profile guys like Mike is great but we fellow gearheads and speed freaks need to support our local trade schools.I am curently working on hosting a rod run at our school to raise awarness of our facility.Recently i was suprised that some local shops didnt know we existed.Its not just donations or sympathy we need but for people to make local and state boards realize our importance.
iv had both sides of the coin, the blue collor and the white, it felt good to walk into a shop and not be looked at as white trash.. my previous job was at the local toyota dealership, shirt and tie, clean hands and no tattoos showing, come lunch time tho im out the back with the mechanics cos thats what i am and will always be, not a pen pushing office bitck.. its in the blood, its warped my mind, its the house we bought (shit house big shed), its every where i go(hollidays are driving for hours for a car or show, lookin in driveways for cars).. when ever someone asks what i do its "well im a mechanic by trade but i work at....." im back on the tools again, my wife perfers me coming home happy!
I am glad there are still some schools teaching these skills. The administrators in my area say there is no market for these skills, but while i was running a collision shop a few years back i was not able to hire personel. So there is obviously a need.
Years ago I was watching "Win Ben Stein's Money", and the question was something about working with your hands. Kimmel made a joke about how stupid blue collar workers were, and Ben quickly retorted that his grandfather had been a machinist, "and was the smartest man I ever knew". Of course, Ben is no dummy...
Everybody thinks their junior is college material and they dump 150k for 4 years(so junior doesn't have to work)I've seen guys in the trades start taking college courses after several years in their trade and I've see college boys get tired of the rat race and get a trade.In other words,bring back vocational high schools.
Mike Rowe is the man. I graduated High School in 1998 they (the school) looked down on those of us that went to votech. We as a country need some people to swing hammers and work on cars. Not everyone can go to a high end school. Blue collars and filthy hands are what made this country so great.
I switched from Blue collar to a low end White collar job 14 years ago. 3 things stood out: 1. I was so happy I didn't have the adversarial relationship with people on a daily basis. Most felt you were too stupid to have a good job, or just smart enough to rip them off. 2. The lack of a sense of accomplishment. At the end of the day, there was no pride. If I took a week off, the same work was there. No real sense I had made a positive change in the world. 3. There is little to no direct responsibility for the work. If you screw up a car or a weld, you have to fix it. If you or your boss or his boss screws up in cubicle land, life goes on without the problem being fixed by those that created it and little negative feedback. This is a HUGE problem there and is in part responsible for the attitudes of those who reside in those sterile places.
I have been teaching auto tech type courses for 23 years. I/my students have been short changed budget wise for most of those years. Things were tolerable till the year 2000 and on. The no child left behind deal was based on sending all kids to college. The Bush administration removed vocational/Perkins money with every budget that he submitted. Instead of funding this type of work the money was set aside for Pell grants to 4 year degrees. Congress would over ride the Bush budget and provide some funding. Each year the funding has gone down. This year was a bit better or so we thought here in Texas. The present federal administration provided big money for vocational programs. We were happy to see a change. But instead of getting it our governor of Texas changed the funding rules after seeing the massive amount of federal funding. After the changes in the rules on funding vocational programs in Texas we ended up with a net loss of 50 bucks per student. I don't know where the money went. I have been lucky to have a number of regular guys who saw what I was trying to do with the program. They helped by funding projects and giving me money to buy much needed equipment over the years. Without their help the programs would have been a total failure. In Texas things are looking very bad and I am seeing many vocational programs cut and closed. Programs that produced good young workers are now gone and likely will never open again. It is sad for the students who live to come to my paint and body or auto tech lab. They tell me this is the only class they stay in school for. I am not sure there will be a spot for me in a year or two. As best I can tell the country is already down the tubes and will never be what it was. Many of the guys on this site are the last of the gearheads. Kinda lonely feeling.
BP and the USW started an apprenticeship program at the Texas City refinery four years ago. We just graduated our first classes of journeyman machinists, pipefitters/welders and Instrument Electricians. We had about 20 in each class, they went to the local Jr College part time and worked in the plant the rest of the time. Each was assigned a mentor to guide them, they rotated through different units and jobs every few months, worked overtime with their mentors, got dirty, got paid well, and got an education. I don't think any of them were over 21 years old, either. We had at least a hundred applications for each opening. Our apprenticeship program is alive and well. We also started an operators' school about ten years ago. The two-year Process Tech program graduates young people ready to work in any refinery or chemical plant. We usually have about ten times as many applications as openings These apprentices and P-Techs start at a much higher pay rate than a fresh engineer or computer nerd. They can often earn over 100K in their first full year after graduation. And, they aren't afraid to get their hands dirty. It's a little-known success story in Galveston County. Send Mike Rowe down here so we can show off!
I was one of those students that only graduated school because of shop class. My only problem is the I wish I would have stuck with it instead of going for a degree in accounting. Programs that produced good young workers are now gone and likely will never open again. It is sad for the students who live to come to my paint and body or auto tech lab. They tell me this is the only class they stay in school for.
Mike Rowe is my Hero.... I graduated from a 3 year vocational HS. And for the past 27 yrs I have worked many jobs both blue and white collar. I have worked with some of the most intelligent people in the world with degrees and certificates too numerous to count. One man was introduced to me as "The Smartest Mother Fucker You Will Ever Meet!" He literally was a rocket scientist. But by far one of the smartest men I know is a 6th grade dropout who builds hotrods for a living. And yes it is true, one day the shit will hit the fan and all those over educated white collared idiots will be begging us "low life" grease monkeys to save them!
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