Tired of fighting with this car. Anyone want a crack at it?

Soapy water is not good, it's sucking not blowing (that's what she said) You would only suck soapy water into your engine. How big is your cam? Do you have an automatic trans? If so, is your modulator hooked up? Is it adjustable?

Wait, your trans fluid is not giving you a reading?

 

The soapy water in a spray bottle was just handy. I should still hear a change in pitch in the idle if it got sucked in, right?

Stock cam as far as I know

Auto yes. I disconnected the brake booster and modulator (the modulator T's off the booster check valve) so I could rule them out. I have the port on the intake they connected to plugged. No idea if the modulator is adjustable. I haven't looked.

Yeah, it looks like the fluid is way low. Didn't even register on the dipstick so I quit for the night since I had some other work calling me. I will pick some up and top it off to see what happens the next try. I am going to work on this each night until I finally get it right or put a for sale sign on it. Last thing I plan is the hardest. I'll pull the intake and check/replace the gaskets again with more sealant.

 

Yeah but...
I don't think you could hear the pitch change on the soap, the pitch change is added flammable stuff getting into the system and slightly increasing the rpms.
So this car runs fairly well until you put it into gear?
You have the ports on the carb plugged going to the brakes and the modulator?
If you have an adjustable modulator you would look into the end of the device and see a small screw head, this is the adjustment screw.
I would fill this trans up first thing, how did it get so low?
I would hook up the hoses to the brakes and the trans.
What is your vacuum number, stock cam, 20? 21?

 

If you feel it's a frozen stator, jack the rear off the ground and give it a try.

 

Its just been sitting for so long and the pan gasket leaks. I have a drip pan under it with sand. I guess it leaked more than I realized.

I was hesitant to spray anything flammable since I had just painted the intake this last time and hated to stain it up again. I suppose starting fluid will work.

Vacuum is kinda low. looks like about 15-18. I really don't know if it has a cam or not. if it is, its really mild. The motor was rebuilt sometime years before I got it because it has .030 pistons. Nonetheless, I drove the car with no problems for years with whatever cam is in it now.

 

What will it do? Suppose it will free it up?

 

put in some LUCAS stuff. and top off trans...............ccall me in the morning.

 

you could always use an unlite propane torch to find the vacuum leak. keep ya from spraying shit all over the engine. if ur fan moves a ton of air thos u might not get great results

 

ok sounds like you get wierd problems like I do. check this out I was working on a friends mustang and it would start ,idle and even go down the street a little ways than it would kill. we checked every thing till I checked the pin that holds the gear on the distributor shaft. fords are known to sheir this pin and the timming will change just enough to through it out of time it will start and idle but when you hit the throttle the gear would slip and the car would die. when the gear would line back up it would catch a ber from the pin and the car would start.this went on for 2 days befor I figured it out. Not saying this is the problem but just one of those thing I would check after reading 5 pages of posts.

 

If it ONLY dies when you put it into gear, and not at any other time, then try raising your idle higher...my '63 Dodge would do the exact same thing until I adjusted the idle, it idles fine in gear but it's a little high when in neutral...I don't know if it's a vacuum leak that brings this problem on, but I fought it for awhile last summer until I just adjusted the idle higher than it "should" have been, and then I had no more issues with it dying in gear...

 

its more than the idle level. I worked on it a little while over my lunch hour today. It was 2 qts low on the trans so I added a quart of Lucas and a quart of type F while it was all good and hot. I stood on the brake while shifting from gear to gear and it was a fight to keep it running in any gear. No change that I can tell yet. I had to keep feathering the throttle to keep it from dying.

My mind is made up though. I am going to pull the intake and redo the gaskets. Today when I first started it, it idled with a good vacuum around 20-22 until I finally hit the gas pedal after it had warmed up a while. After that the vac dropped to around 15-17 where it idles.

 

Keep us informed as to the intake, it's always good to leave feed back for the next guy, Thanks.

 

is something hanging up on your secondary throtleplate? does it close all the way AND stay closed? vacume secondary leaks ? well,you have a weekend coming up-good luck. if you can survive this you are a real HAMB er. it WILL be worth the pain, honest.

 

Frank, a quick easy check for a weak coil is to look at the color of the spark. Pull a plug wire and place it close to the head/block. If it has a red spark, it is probably a bad coil. A good hot spark will be blue.

It doesn't sound like it is a coil but maybe this will help someone. Hope you find the problem.

 

goofy but this happens. clogged exhaust, from rot, mouse nests etc... how much flow is commin out the exhaust?

 

Dont know if this was mentioned yet, but have you checked the Distributor Retard Control Valve? I had an older Mustang that had an issue with this, where i would need to Step on the break and hold the throttle down to put it into gear, if not it would stall. after replacing the stupid valve and having to adjust the Jets on the carb all was good. (well until i blew the tranny and junked it)

 

Any resolution for the problem yet??? "Inquiring minds would like to know"!

 

try hot wiring it to eliminate that its a wiring problem the heat cycle can expand and contract wires and putting it in gear can lose contact if its a cracked or corroded wire pop of the distributor cap grab the rotor and wiggle it back and forth if it moves the bearings are shoot in the distributor the dwell and timing will change a dwell meeter can tell if you rev it up and the dwell changes

 

try the old words , in new combinations. sometimes it helps.

 

Did you pull the intake over the weekend?

 

I saw your reference to 8 or 9 psi on fuel pressure. That's too high for an Edelbrock. You need to regulate that back to 6 max. I run mine at 5 with dual quads and have never 'run out of fuel' on a pass.

 

If the car was running fine and then "suddenly" developed this die in gear problem, I would inspect the engine wire harness for both power and ground continuity.

I have seen driveabilty problems caused by a broken wire within a harness. The wires in the harness become brittle with age and will fracture creating a condition where the wire is open and voltage can jump the open but current ( amps ) cannot.

So...start and idle ( votage ) drop in drive dies ( ampere ). Creates an intermitant short to ground condition.

I have also seen drivability problems caused by loose or corroded grounds.

I suggest you get out your ohm-meter and wiggle / move your engine harness as you test for continuity and inspect all grounds in the engine harness as well.

 

Hey whats the out come of this situation Pete.

 

Due to work hours, bad weather (car is outside) and life in general, I haven't been able to get back to it. Hopefully this weekend I can get somewhere with it. I will post my results as I go or if/when the car is for sale.

 

I know what your going through. I been fighting mine for 2yrs. I think I finally got it figured out. I readjusted my valves and put a later model distributer cap and rotor button.
i had mds adapters to make the old style female cap a male style new cap. I put the new cap and rotor on it and it fixed the problems.

 

I had one that drove me nuts for months, Previous owner had car serviced by "Wrench" Car would crank right up cold, drive 4,5 miles start faltering and shut off, crank on it floored it would start and run another 4,5 miles boom same thing. I had the Holley 650 apart 10 times, reset the needle/seats constantly. Fuel PSI gauge under hood showed 5/7 psi KOEO or KOER didnt matter. Took a gamble and looked at the Carter fuel pump under the pkg. tray, sure enough, High pressure! The voltage wouldnt be high enough @ idle or a few revvs, but when on the highway the volts would come up to blow the fuel past the seats.
Changed the pump to the one neatly stored in the trunk and no more problem. P/O was PISSED!
BTW there was no regulator but in the pump itself.
Does the pertronix use a condenser? IIRC it does not, my next check would be the coil, which does not have to be hot to the touch to fail.

John
PS. hook a timing light up to the coil wire and watch the light around when it starts to die It should give you the best indication as far as spark problems

 

Frank I just read all the posts on your problem. Nowhere did I see your answer to the questions in posts 3, 4, and 6 about the timing chain being loose. Did you ever check it? That would be my first thought as it is so easy to check. You can also just remove the fuel pump and turn the crank so that the slack side of the chain is on the fuel pump side and push on the chain with your finger through the fuel pump hole to see how loose it is. I bet it jumped one or more teeth. I believe the cam sprocket has a nylon toothed gear and with age and mileage the teeth chip off.

 

No, I hadn't got back to check that, but I never even thought about feeling the chain tension through the fuel pump hole. I like that idea I will definitely try it.

 

Pertronix is a voltage hog. My 55 Olds would start and run great for about 10 minutes then die when heat would create resistance. Went back to points, problem solved. Good luck

 

I was going to pull the intake today and when I got to the distributor, under the cap was some metal dust. I took it out for a closer look and found that the part under the breaker plate was rubbing on the housing grinding off fine aluminum dust. Since the shaft seemed a little wobbly too and the breaker plate had a pivot hole a bit wallered out, I decided it had to be replaced. I put in a newly rebuilt distributor with new points. That also eliminates any possibilities with the Pertronix. Unfortunately it does not seem to have made a very noticeable difference other than it idles a little smoother. Not just by feel, but also on the vac gauge. I guess I can mark that as one less thing.

So here is a new question, and it may be nothing. I noticed my key getting almost too hot to touch. Granted it is 100+deg F and prob 140+ IN the car. My key is brass. Might be nothing. I am going to try it again this evening when its cooler, but has anyone known a bad ignition switch to heat up a key like that? I'm beginning to wonder if there could be an issue there interfering with the spark.

On my to do list:
Check spark health
Check timing chain slack as suggested
If neither of the above provide any benefit, pull the intake and check/replace gaskets due to suspect vacuum leak.