So first, off It's been awile since I've been on the Hamb, so hello to all out there. Due to kids, work, and life, I havent had a project to work on for some time, so Im pretty excited about this one. I know very little to nothing about Mopar builds but I'm learning more and more every day. I thought I would turn to the HAMB to ask, listen, and learn.. I picked up this slow running, constant overheating, 1953 Dodge PU about a month ago with hopefull intentions in turing it into somthing a little different. I really would like to stick to Mopar with the build so Im doing all I can to keep to the plan. Its fully stock and running what I beleive to be a 218 cu flat 6. I just picked up a freshly rebuilt 440 that I am planning on installing into the truck. Unfortunitly I don't have the build specs, I do know it has the open chanber 906 heads and is running 906 compression pistons... about it. The motor was built buy Valley Head in Northridge, So Cal., and from what I hear he has been on the local racing curcuit for some time.. so he knows his stuff. Anyhow some of the current questions I have are as follows. -is a 727 the best way to go for the trans? -is there a specific 727 I need or are they all the same? -can I find motor mounts easily for the 440 or should I have them fabricated? -how much modification to the frame will be needed to handle the torqe of the 440, should I just replace... if so with what? -ideas on updating the suspension to handle the weight up front? -If I change the gear ratio in the rear end, will the current rear be able to handle the 440? -what gear ratio should I use in the rear to keep it fast on off the line, and be able to run the freeway at 65-70 mph? -how should I weight down the rear end to help keep the tires on the ground -I have 440 source for parts, any other recomendations? - is the stock motor tans worth anything? -Am I crazy? Thanks for taking the time to read, any and all feedback is appreciated, I'm sure Im missing a lot of things. Anyhow, I'm yanking the stock motor and trans this weekend. I'm ready to get moving on this!
Go to Pilot-house .com. Some of those guys have put large engines in these old trucks. You can also sell your extra parts there. You will have to upgrade the suspension, brakes and rear end for your stated purposes. BTW, based on the front end and rear fenders, you have either a '48 or '49 Dodge.
Bobacuda, thanks for the insight! You know, I was thinking it was an earlier model Dodge PU due to the front end and the dash, the instrument cluster was different than all the 53's I found. Its titled as a 53 and was advertised as a 53 so I went with it. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck... usally a duck! I'll go check pilot house out.
My friends building a 54, It has the "coke bottle" frame. He bought a fatman IFS kit for it. Real easy install. His truck is now a smallblock 360 with a 727 You'll have to box the frame, at least the front half of it.
Yep, definitely a B1 or B2. And those front grill bars look pretty straight, you lucked out! On ebay, a good, complete set always fetches 600-700 bucks! Like others have said, go to the pilothouse forum, there is a wealth of knowledge and many people have done what you are looking to do. One common frame swap is a dodge dakota, not sure how well the 440 would mount on that frame but you have a lot of options for suspension.
RisenOutlaw- any way to determine if its a 48 or 49? I lucked out, the truck is about as straight as they come. For $2700, I could not resist! I read quite a bit about people going with the dakota frames, if I only need some minor boxing of the frame I might take that route though.
Vehicle Id # 85300439x Titled and licensed as a 1953 commercial ... Any reason this will give me any trouble in the future? thanks!
A 48-51 have a grill like yours, a 52 & 53 have a slightly different grill and grill opening, but the nose piece unbolts and the front fenders are the same 48-53. Lots of years have passed that could have resulted in a nose piece swap somewhere. A 53 would have had the late model rear fenders (54-80 something), swapping to the older fenders would have resulted in having to fill some holes in the box sides. Again, having had an older box swapped on your frame would not be unheard of. A 54 Dodge pickup had a completely different cab. My 50 has a 52 & 53 nose on it, been there since the early 60s according to the guy I bought the truck from. I would not be concerned about a title issue as long as your numbers match. As far as the frame is concerned, I suspect the original flathead 6 probably weighed as much as the 440 does, they were heavy brutes. You could get by with fabricating motor mounts and bolting in the 440. As one would expect, the truck frame was designed to twist and flex. As long as your frame is sound, and you don't intend on drag racing, your frame should hold up just fine with the 440. The frames on these trucks are pretty stout. The beam axle was a good piece, and the leaf spring front suspension has worked well for many years. There are disc brake conversions available for your beam axle. The only reason a good axle and suspension would need to be changed out would be for personal reasons. Now, after all that, I clipped my 54 with an F,M & J clip (Aspen/Volare) and my 50 is on an 80 Dodge 4x4 chassis. If I were to do another truck, it would probably be on a Dakota frame (not clipped, use the whole frame, adjust the wheel base as needed). If your going to use an automatic with your 440, you need a 727 with a big block trans case. 727 auto came with 3 distinct cases, one for a slant 6, one for small blocks, and one for big blocks. I would upgrade your rear axle to one from a newer Dodge full size truck, I would put at least an 8 3/4 or a 9 1/4 behind a 440 with 3:23 or 3:55 gears. Gene
Nice truck! RisinOutlaw is right on, that's a '50. I've got pictures of my '53's in my album and avatar, they look a little different (grille, rear fenders, etc). But as long as the #'s on the truck match the #'s on the title you should be fine. The old trucks were often titled in the year they sold, not by the model year. Its not uncommon to see 50's titled as 51's, 53's as 54's etc. Not usually 50's as 53's though. I agree with 50dodge too, the 440 isn't going to be much heavier than that flathead 6. Fully dressed 440's weight in at around 670 lbs, at the very most you might be talking 100 lbs. Maybe. But the 727 will be significantly lighter than the stock transmission, so its probably a wash. I clipped my first '53 with a '66 Fury to get a 440 into it. Because of how the frame clip located the engine I ended up having to recess the center of the firewall. Without a clip though you can probably get that engine located without cutting the firewall, Dan Babb got a 354 hemi into his pilothouse without cutting the firewall. His build thread is here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455737 Rear end I would say either a mopar 8 3/4 or 9 1/4 (later, say out of a Cherokee or Dakota), ford 9, or Dana 60 for the 440. You'll have a hard time finding different gears for the stock rear, and it probably wouldn't last behind the 440 anyway. Final gearing on a 727 is 1:1, so depending on tire height I would say 3.55 or 3.73 is probably as high as you want to go if you want to cruise easily on the freeway. 3.91's will make 70 mph a little annoying after awhile, not good for long hauls anyway. And the 440 will give you plenty of grunt off the line. And as far as the stock engine and transmission, well, if you can get the engine closer to Sacramento than Long Beach, I'd be interested. I'm looking for a running 218 to drop into the '53 in my avatar. I'm trying to get it running, and its original 218 is going to take more work than I wanted it to. They aren't worth a ton,but if it really does run decently we might be able to work something out.
A lot of old trucks were not registered until they decided to take them off the farm- so it is not unheard of for a truck to be registered for the first time when it was 10 or 12 years old, then who remembered when it was bought, so they just picked a year that seemed right. Different era. Nice truck in any event. Jim
Thanks everyone for the knowledge, its very mcu appreciated! Looks like Im just going to box up the frame and go with a disc brake conversion up front, now I need to locate one. Im a bit worried as to fabricating the motor mounts... but its a good learning process. Rear end is probobly going to be an 8 3/4, the Dana's I've found are a bit out of my budget. Anyone local know where I can get a 727 thats ready to bolt on and run? I've gone the CL and Ebay route... no real luck. Going to post pics as I begin the tear down. Happy Friday!
We have a 51 with a 440/727. went with an 8 3/4 rear and subframed it with a Volare clip. the only issues we ran into was oil pan clearance. Nice truck good luck with the build!
I'd add that if you want to cruise consider better ratio's amd go for something like a 3.23 or 2.91 or even a 2.76. The 440 will make enough powe to move a light weight along like this truck and the best way to strech the gas bill is to lower the revs. 3.5's and 3.73's are great ratio's however with your combination it will still light the hides at the 3.23 or even 2.91 ratio's. I have a 73 Dodge p/up 318 s/b with 3.5's and its ok on the open road and will pull away in town from 20 mph in top gear and not baulk so by going to the cruiser gears will not affect your performance but will improve your MPG
Nice project. I hope you are getting it rolling. I am working on a 50 as well, and am looking for some of the sheetmetal for the cab/runningboard mount on the pasenger side. Diid you have to get spare parts? If so, where did you find them?
Yeah, using a dana rear axle behind a relatively stock 440 automatic is expensive overkill by a long shot! A Chrysler 8-3/4 rear axle (or a Ford 9", same wheel bolt pattern too!) is plenty strong and you have the advantage of interchangeable center sections and can change your rear gear in about an hour with hand tools. I have three sets of gears for my 71 Road Runner and usually just run around with the 3.23's in it. The 3.91's are nice if you have a taller tire, and the 4.56's drive me crazy on the street, but they are good on the drag strip. People will tell you that you MUST HAVE the 489 case for the rear axle center section, but when I worked for Mopar City we had a standing offer that anyone that could break a 741 or 742 center section with a street engine would get a replacement absolutely free AND they'd get a job application/offer from us because they could obviously build one hell of a street motor! (Never had to exchange a single one of them, by the way). If you're swap meet hunting for motor mounts, get the 1973-1978 style instead of the earlier "sandwich" style. The later mounts & isolators look like the number 6 (more or less) and they have a bolt running through the center to keep the engine in place in case the rubber isolator degrades and tears. Look at the pictures on www.rockauto.com (just enter something like 1976 Chrysler New Yorker 440 in the engine mounts section) and you'll see what I mean. You can easily fabricate the little u-shaped cradle mounts that the "6" motor mount sits in. If you can't find a photo of a later style engine crossmember, send me a PM and I'll see what I can find. All 727 transmissions from 1966 to 1972 are pretty much the same. The only difference being that if your engine has the thicker harmonic balancer and a little egg shaped bit sticking off the front of the harmonic balancer where the crank pulley mounts, it's a cast crank (no worries there either with a street engine!) and it'll need the small balancing weights on the torque converter that all cast crank engines had from 1973 on up. If the front of your harmonic balancer is flat (except for the retaining bolt, of course) it's a forged crankshaft and you don't need the weights on the torque converter. I'd avoid a transmission from a 1975 - 1978 vehicle altogether simply because they're almost all "lockup" torque converter models and you won't be happy with feeling like you're carrying an extra 1,000 pounds around in the bed when the torque converter locks up at 25 mph... (supposedly to give you more gas mileage and to sacrifice any "fun" that you might want to have with the vehicle!).
Also... NEVER drive the 727 transmission without the kickdown linkage connected and adjusted properly! That's what controls the line pressures for the internal clutches, etc. Even to the store and back to get beverages to celebrate "Hey! It runs & drives!" will hurt it pretty badly. My suggestion would be to hit a swap meet, ebay, etc. and find a factory service manual for pretty much any late 60's Chrysler product (avoid the Haynes manuals or Clymer's, etc. - get what the guys at the dealerships used!) and read up on how to adjust things like the kickdown linkage. The factory service manuals are priceless when it comes to building a hot rod and using factory parts. They're reproducing the linkage for the muscle car crowd, but it's EXPENSIVE. Swap meet cobbling gets frustrating (believe me I've tried!) but LOKAR makes a cable operated kickdown linkage that I've heard works pretty well. (Haven't tried it myself). Hit a Barnes and Noble and pick up a magazine called "Mopar Collector's Guide" Pretty much anyone with mopar parts advertises in there and you can call some of the bigger "mopar only" salvage yards like Ted Stephens, Mopar City, etc. to get the odd stuff.
Long time ago some guys up the street put some large block Chrysler wedge in a similar Dodge pickup. They got the original K member that the engine was bolted to and welded it in to the pickup frame. Looked pretty good to me.
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