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9" for Falcon/Comet?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by modeleh, Apr 26, 2011.

  1. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    I have a pipe dream to put a 9" in my 64 Ranchero because I have a 4.11 detroit locker center that I have been hanging onto for along time. I also have a Hone-o-drive that is part of the dream.
    I have a 66 Bronco rear but I have heard because the axles are different lengths, they create driveline problems.
    I have been keeping an eye open for a 57-59 rear, but was wondering if the 61-66 Econolines had 9" rears and how wide are they? I searched some pages with axle widths but couldn't find the Econolines listed.

    What have some of you Falcon/Comet guys used for a rear? I kind of want to stay away from the Versailles rears.
     
  2. gands
    Joined: Mar 10, 2011
    Posts: 34

    gands
    Member
    from arkansas

    8" here, I think it was from a 67 mustang. 4.11 gears and a detroit locker behind a top loader 4 speed and hot 289. Wheels are 8" steelies from early wheel with 5" back spacing...you will love the 4.11's
     
  3. What kind of problems ? I've been beating on one for four years now in my car, have a friend that races his every other weekend with no problems either.
     
  4. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,327

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    I just had a custom length 9" made for a 65 Falcon I was working on. It was done by Quick Performance and wasnt that expensive. It came with new moser axles (31pline) all new bearings and Studs and I just supply the Chunk.
     

  5. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    I was reading a Falcon forum and some guy said he was going to take his Bronc rear out because it ate up u-joints because the pot isn't centered in the car. I would have thought the driveshaft angle wouldn't be that bad. Maybe he had a poorly made up shaft?
     
  6. 61falcon
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 772

    61falcon
    Member

    i got a 9" in my 61 falcon with a detroit locker. i bought a housing and big bearing ends and had it cut to my specs. got some new axles from moser. spent a little more than i wanted, but its worth it.
     
  7. MN Falcon
    Joined: May 21, 2007
    Posts: 566

    MN Falcon
    Member

    Did the Mustangs come with a 9", I think the Mustang was basically the same car? Is the Bronco set up like the 1/2 ton truck, if so it actually will have equal length axles. The problem is that to have equal axles they offset the pinion, so the driveshaft wouldn't fit the tunnel (which isn't a problem under a truck). The cars have different size axles so that they can center the pinion so the driveshaft fits in the tunnel. Just some thoughts. The only conversions I have actaully seen are the Granada 8" Mine still sports the stock '63 junker they put behind the 6 cyl :-(
     
  8. brandon
    Joined: Jul 19, 2002
    Posts: 6,368

    brandon
    Member

    if you have a 8" in the car....you could always cut a 28 spline 9" housing down and use your 8" axles in a pinch..a buddy did it to his pinto
     
  9. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    Only the 289HP mustangs had the 9", so they are kind of pricey. I'm pretty sure the Bronc axles are different lengths. Anybody know about the Econo rears? There is a rusty Econo for sale about an hour away from me, but thought I might get some info before I pursue that.
     
  10. 61falcon
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 772

    61falcon
    Member

    my axles are different lengths, i have no driveline issues. maybe i dont understand your concern?
     
  11. MN Falcon
    Joined: May 21, 2007
    Posts: 566

    MN Falcon
    Member

    I wasn't even sure if the early Mustangs had a 9", but that makes sense. If the Bronco has different length axles its because the driveshaft fits in a tunnel down the center of the truck. This will be the same for all the cars. Like I said only the 1/2 ton trucks have equal size axles because there is no issue going sideways with the driveshaft under the truck. Like I said the pinion on the 9" is off center, so to center the pinion on the car they had to use different length axles. So what you are saying is that the Bronco is like the cars and not like the trucks
     
  12. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    Lol, I guess I don't know what I am saying. I guess I got some bad info reading about the Bronco rears in the Falcons. I just assumed that if the width was right, it could be made to work once the axles are redrilled. I guess all I needed to hear was that it has been done successfully and swade41 has said so. I guess I don't need to worry about finding a different rearend now.
     
  13. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member

    Here is a small article that I did on the subject:

    I am going to show the steps involved in narrowing a 9" Ford rear end housing. I am narrowing the following housing to accept Maverick 8" Ford 28 spline axles and housing ends to end up with a 56 3/8" wide 9" Ford rear end that will bolt in to a '65 Comet. It will also work on '64-'65 Falcons.


    -First off, to clear up some mis-conceptions, a rear end is NEVER measured from backing plate to backing plate. That measurement tells you absolutely nothing because there are so many different backing plates, brake offsets and brake shoe widths. ALWAYS measure a rear end from the outside of the axle flange to the outside of the axle flange.

    -Here are some terms, vital measurements and facts:

    -28 spline 8" and 9" Ford axles are the same spline.

    -You have to cut at least 4" out of 8" or 9" Ford OEM axles in order to shorten and re-spline them. Some of the older axles cannot be shortened at all. You cannot remove 1", 2", or 3" from any stock Ford 8" or 9" axle.

    -Axles are always measured from the outside of the axle flange to the end of the splines.

    -Brake offset is the measurement from the outside of the axle flange to the inside edge of the bearing retainer flange + 1/8". (the 1/8" is the thickness of the brake backing plate)

    -Most small bearing 8" and 9" Fords have a 2 1/2" brake offset.

    -Most big bearing 9" Fords have a 2 3/8" brake offset.

    -These brake offsets are the most common, but there are always exceptions, so your best bet is to measure what you have.

    -Centered pinion rear ends will ALWAYS have a left side axle that is 4" shorter than the right side axle.

    -Rear ends that have the same length left and right side axles ALWAYS have the pinion offset 2" to the right.

    -The "dogbone" is a tool that shows where the edge of the axles end up when bolted in the housing. It allows measurements to be taken with a bare housing when narrowing a housing.

    -The space between the two axles is ALWAYS 1 1/8" on 8" and 9" Fords whether the rear end has an open diff, posi, locker, spool etc. This measurement is the same throughout all years of production.

    The rear end housing that I will be using is from a late 60's early 70's Ford pickup. It is the small web housing, but it has 3" O.D. housing tubes that are .188" thick. It will handle lots of abuse:
    [​IMG]

    I will be using the small bearing axle ends from the 8" rear end. They have already been cut off and faced in a lathe to 2 3/8" in length:
    [​IMG]

    The 8" axles have a 2 1/2" brake offset:
    [​IMG]

    The left side axle measures 25 5/8" from the outside of the flange to the end of the splines:
    [​IMG]

    The right side axle measures 29 5/8" from the outside of the flange to the end of the splines:
    [​IMG]

    Here is the housing after all the brackets were cut off and ground smooth. It has been cleaned with a stiff wire wheel:
    [​IMG]

    The "dogbone" is placed on the housing studs for measurement:
    [​IMG]

    -Now for some math to determine where to cut the housing:

    -29 5/8" right side axle length minus the 2 1/2" brake offset minus the 2 3/8" length of the housing end = a 24 3/4" housing cut measurement.


    So we set the housing on the chop saw table and we measure from the edge of the cut off wheel to the right side of the dogbone:
    [​IMG]


    ......and the end of the housing is cut:
    [​IMG]

    -Now for some math for the left side:
    25 5/8" left side axle length minus the 2 1/2" brake offset minus the 2 3/8" length of the housing end = a 20 3/4" housing cut measurement.

    The housing is set on the chop saw table and we measure from the edge of the cut off wheel to the left side of the dogbone:
    [​IMG]

    ....and the housing is cut:
    [​IMG]

    We now have a very narrow housing waiting for some housing ends to be welded on:
    [​IMG]

    A dummy centersection is set up with aluminum mandrels in place of the bearings:
    [​IMG]

    This is the 1 1/2" diameter stainless steel alignment bar that will slide into the centersection:
    [​IMG]

    The centersection is bolted into the housing and the alignment bar is slid in place:
    [​IMG]

    Another aluminum mandrel is used to place the housing end on the alignment bar. The face of the centersection is leveled and the bolt holes on the housing ends are also leveled. The housing end is tack welded in four places 90 degrees apart and then fully welded:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here is the finished housing. When assembled, it will measure 56 3/8" wide, narrower than any 9" ever offered from the factory:
    [​IMG]

    These terms, measurements and procedures can be used to narrow any 9" Ford housing to accept any length axle whether they are stock or aftermarket. Notice that we built a housing to utilize axles that were on hand, but we can also figure any housing width and determine what length axles to order for it using most the the measurements above along with a couple more.
     
  14. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    Thanks that is good info.
     
  15. 5Belair7
    Joined: Apr 21, 2009
    Posts: 46

    5Belair7
    Member

    Give this guy a call....he is in my area and builds 8 and 9" rears and ships them international. He knows this stuff inside and out: Tons of parts in stock 47 different 9" ratios in stock
    Has ads in the mags.
    T.J.Rebert 610-485-4858
    [email protected]

    Tell him Glen from the Delco cruisers gave you the info. He's a great guy.
     
  16. 39 Ford
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 1,558

    39 Ford
    Member

    I once built a 62 Fairlane using a 9" out of a 59 Wagon, just needed the pads moved. The car had a 289 Hi-Per. and a top loader 4 speed. Never a driveline problem. It may be hard to find such a rear today but look for rear width charts here or on the web. if I were doing a similar car today I would look hard at the 8.8 Explorer rear.
     
  17. MN Falcon
    Joined: May 21, 2007
    Posts: 566

    MN Falcon
    Member

    Great info, this is what I was trying to say, Drive Em has the good info -- it really looks like he knows what he is doing :)

    So from what swade41 says in the other thread that he posted, the Bronco pinion is actually offset to the right. That is what is going to give you problems, if that will fit and if your driveshaft will fit in your tunnel (and having the offset pinion suggests equal length axles)
     
  18. RidgeRunner
    Joined: Feb 9, 2007
    Posts: 906

    RidgeRunner
    Member
    from Western MA

    Intensify the watch for a '57-'59 9", well worth it if you can find one. I used a '58 in my '63 Falcon Ranchero. A true bolt in swap, no u-joint or tire clearance issues and didn't even have to move the spring pads. Worked out slick.

    Ed
     
  19. Verminator
    Joined: Mar 27, 2007
    Posts: 813

    Verminator
    Member

    I have a 59 4 door sedan 9" rear in my 61 falcon. Bolted right in on the perches. Small bearing ends. 4.56 spool moser axles, NO bracing across the rear, 700 HP, over 15 years of torture, no problems with rear
     
  20. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    Even though the Bronc rear could be made to work, I think you are right, the bolt in job would be the best option. I know axles and drums can be redrilled and pads moved, but if you don't have to, why bother? I had hung onto this Bronc rear because it is 5 on 5 1/2 and thought it would go good in an A chassis with 35 wires.
    Funny, after all these replies, not much info on the Econoline rears have come up. I guess they aren't a good candidate or someone would have done it by now!
     
  21. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,355

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Thanks "Drive Em"...........fabulous how-to !!

    Ray
     
  22. Hone-o-drive, really?
    You can get a 9" in about 300 different ways from Sunday!
    You want the drive shaft centered then get un equal length axles and a pumpkin off set.
    Want the pumkin centered then the drive shaft will be off set and equal axles.
    Any way you want it if its set up right they take plenty of abuse.
     
  23. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    yes, it is a model 300. It would have been nice to find one that bolted to the pinion, but beggars can't be choosers. I have had the car for years and parts collecting dust on the shelf for years. It is a 289 4spd car, but the grand plans are to buy a stroker kit either 408 or 427 or whatever and put it in the dusty 351 block, dart heads, edelbrock rpm cam and intake I have, so it should make an honest 400 hp, and of course I'm hoping with the 4.11 gears it can really get lost. Then shift the Hone, Baldwin Motion style. Then I can post a pic in the Falcons done right thread.:)
     
  24. dallasdrifter
    Joined: Apr 7, 2011
    Posts: 72

    dallasdrifter
    Member
    from dallas tx

    I'd use a 8.8 out of a ranger. Parts are cheaper, and the ranger's are close in length to the falcon housing-I got that from the research I found. I didn't want a 9" because everybody and their mom want's a 9. Have fun and mix it up a little. Just my thought's on the subject. Sell the rear end you have on craigslist. Rock crawler's or trail beaters could use that rear end.
     
  25. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    A 57/58/59 Ford station wagon is the HOT set up for the Falcon. I installed one in a 60 Falcon many years ago. It was a virtual BOLT IN. The station wagons, Rancheros and convertible came with the big bearing ends ... :)

    [​IMG]

    The 57/58/59 9 inch ends up being right at 58 inches ... measured from the wheel mounting surface to the wheel mounting surface. It is very easy to get down to 56 inches ...

    A 64 Ford station wagon rear end also has two different axle shaft lengths. Take the short axle and make it your long axle ( narrow the housing ) and them narrow the other end and respline the long axle to the correct lenght for 56 inches. Then weld new pads on the housing ... and call it DONE :eek:

    The down side to using 8 inch axles is they are all small bearing and kind of skinny. They are a part of the weak link in a 8 inch Ford. WHY go to a 9 inch with 8 inch axles with weakness ???
     
  26. Verminator
    Joined: Mar 27, 2007
    Posts: 813

    Verminator
    Member

    Early econolines are too wide for the falcons. Perches on top, not the bottom. Later 8.8 rears are plentiful and cheap, but you don't have the ease of swapping complete pumpkins out for gear ratio change
     
  27. Drive Em
    Joined: Aug 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,748

    Drive Em
    Member

    The Granada 8" axles are exactly the same as the small bearing 9" axles. They are not the skinny axles like the early 8" rear ends.
     
  28. Call Doug at Quick Performance! A really great guy to work with. (515) 232-0126
     
  29. modeleh
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 380

    modeleh
    Member

    The reason I wanted a 9" was simply because I already have a center section with the DL and 4.11 cogs. I have heard about the station wagon rearends, but wouldn't the width of all of the 57-59 models have been the same?
     

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