i'm looking to get as much info about building hipo engines as i can. i picked up a few books, but i thought i would ask all you hamb gurus too. i can fab and do all that fun stuff, but engines always seemed so complicated to me. I'm looking to build a very radical 350, just an entrance into the engine performance world. I can get a 350 4bolt main, block number 3970010 so thats what i will be working off of. I will be completely rebuilding it, crank and all. I'm looking to make a solid 500 or so hp, unblown, with a really aggresive sound. So any info involving the cranks stroke, cam size, piston size, heads, and pretty much everything else would be awesome, and feel free to go into as much detail as you can, i will take all the info i can get. thanks
OPT out for a stroker crank. I put a 383 stroker in my 60 apache and its bitchin for what little work was done. Read cam profiles and get the right set of heads. I used single hump heads and a Crower torque monster cam.
1. if you're using a SBC,, just get a crate motor... It's cheaper than trying to build one.... 2. Make the connecting rods as LONG as possible... That's where Chevy screwed up... 3. If you're going to run something modern,, use a Mopar small block or something else that is better engineered and under-appreciated... They're different,, and way easier to work on.... 4. SBC's piss me off... Sorry guys,, but I'm tired of seeing 'em... Cookie-cutter motors that aren't that great,, but the aftermarket performance is there by the buttload... If you're putting the time and money into it,, run something with a bit more character.... Maybe an Olds 'Rocket" or an early Hemi.... You will be starting with something that was not a 'compromise' by the time it hit the market..... 5. Fuck my opinion... Build what you truly want.... -Jim
a chrysler hemi is ultimately what i want to build, but they are a little out of my price range and a bit to pricey to build for my first motor. i would be too afraid to mess something up haha. im only 22, i dont have a full on career to fund this expensive hobby hahaha
Dude,, I'm 28 and still live like I'm 15.... I deliver pizzas for a living (not much of one).... Let me tell you,, build what you want to build... You'll be happier in the end.... I'm in the early stages of my first engine build,, and It going to be expensive... I don't care... It's a '51 Olds 303, ,and that's what I'm happy with.... Get a Hemi and build it... They are awesome motors... There are tons of people on here who can help, and I have a good friend who is a Hemi guru... It doesn't have to cost 30 grand.... A basic rebuild kit is about twice the price as a SBC, and horsepower will come easier with the Hemi.... In the end it won't cost that much more when you compare power output, and you'll feel much more satisfaction when you turn the key... SBC's were mass-produced 'cost-effective' garbage... Hemi's were state of the art... You know that every single one was dyno'ed before it left the factory...??? They put more work into those Hemi's than a lot of engine rebuilders do on their crate motors.... The pride that Chrysler (and the others, too) put into their product in the 50's makes the standard production motors of the early 70's look like a half-assed Chinese snowblower engine you'd get at Wallyworld for $19.95..... Start with something good..... You'll thank yourself later.... Take your time... You're still young enough that stretching a rebuild out over a year or two is no big deal... Even with the most common and cheapest performance parts, it's still going to be a HEMI, and you will be one of the elite......
First thing you have to consider is put a realistic number on what your budget will be in the end. That is what is really going to dictate how much horsepower you can make because I can tell you 500 horse isnt cheap. It can be done definitely but you need to know how much you can spend before you dive into anything because you dont want a collection of half a motor's worth of ultra high performance parts and then jalopy some other stuff together with it because you run out of money and just want to get it together. There is a specific combination for every level and everything should be matched appropriately
A 331 hemi will usually run $300 - $500 for a rebuilder, from there everything is more expensive, but i built my first hemi for a grand 10 years ago when i was 16.... it was Nothing special but they can be built on a budget though.
If you do your own heavy work on the HEMI heads, you'll not only learn something, but you'll save a ton of cash and make a hell of a lot more horsepower..... You don't even have to get that aggressive.... There's plenty of meat to carve away and blend without going overboard.... The early heads are actually quite forgiving (LOTS of extra metal in those castings)...... For a few bucks worth of 'tootsie rolls' for finishing it up,, a decent carbide die grinder to rough it into shape, and about 100 hours of 'getting it right', you'll have port and bowl work what the machine shop would have charged many hundreds of dollars to do, but you did it yourself,, learned something, and spent next to nothing to do (financially, not time-wise).... Between a bit of blending and polishing on the heads,, a 3-angle valve job, some decent headers, a nice intake manifold and carb setup, and a cam with a touch more 'balls' than factory, you'll be making more power than you know what to do with, unless you're putting the HEMI into a super-heavy chunk of shit... And best of all, it won't be a SBC...!!!!
Off the top of my head........ Stud kit for the bottom end. Balance the rotating assy. Raise the compression, and the price you pay for gas Vortec heads If you really want to part with some cash, have the heads flow bench tested, cc the chambers, and buy all the lightest weight valve train components you can find.
sixfour, How much of the work are you going to do and do you have the tools? A "radical" small block can cost upwards of 10K to build right. watch out for too high of compression with todays gas. you might consider a supercharger on a low compression engine. Lots of machine work to keep the engine alive. call your local engine machine shop to get prices. check with jegs and summit on parts prices compare these prices to a GM crate engine......
Yea if you don't already have a crank you can get a complete balanced eagle rotating assembly for less than a grand. You can then get yourself a trick flow topend complete from the roller cam to the rocker cover rails for about 2500 and you have the makings of 500 hp in a box. All thats left is just finishin' up. There are some tricks that can be done if you don't want to go that route. but that is your easiest route then all you really need to learn is proper clearance checking and assembly. Tuning is also optional learning. But that is another day.
You want/need 500 hp from a 350 sbc on a tight budget?? It can be done pretty easily- *if* your prepared and able to wait for the right deals and the right parts by doing some judicious horsetrading and searching the swap meets, and the internet (ie - ebay, kijiji, racingjunk.com and here on the HAMB, etc) for some deals on some good used race parts, rather than buying everything "brand new in the box". First, don't bore your block more than .030. Only bore the block the bare minimum that is required and don't bore it at all until you have the pistons you want to use. And if you can find a deal on a crank and pistons, build a 383. Displacement and torque are your friends. You also want to run a zero deck height on the block - or as near to zero as possible. which will require at least one or probably several trial assemblies, before doing the final machine work. You also should shoot for at least, (and actually verified through cc'ing and measuring , rather just 'theoretical' or 'nominal') 10 to 1 compression ratio as a minimum - and depending on what you can get and afford for fuel, more compression if possible. A 'rule of thumb' too, when trying to build compression - for a given compression ratio, a tight deck height and a small or no dome on the piston, combined with a small cc combustion chamber will make more power and resist detonation better than a lower deck height and bigger dome and larger cc heads. Also, remember too, that the greater the displacement for a given cylinder head volume. the smaller the dome on the piston can be for a given compression ratio. Another reason to consider building a 383? Whether you build a 350 or a 383, a forged crank is nice if you either already have one, or can get one relatively cheap, but is not absolutely necessary for 500 hp. A good, *verified crack-free*. cast crank, not turned more that than .010 or .020, will suffice. Stock rods are ok too, but by the time you prep them (-ie - mag them, resize them, hone and/or bush the small ends for floating pins, replace the bolts with good ARP or similar, shot peen and polish them etc.) you'll have almost as much or more in them as for set of much better aftermarket steel rods. To live at the 500 hp level, you'll need some good forged pistons. *Do not* use so-called Hyperutectic pistons. Hypereutectic pistons are cast, not forged. They're ok for a mild, near stock, street motor that has to run for a 100,000-plus miles, but at the 500 hp level, if you run into any detonation, the very hard, high-silicon 'hyperutectic' alloy in them will cause them to crack. The key to making power in any engine is in the top end and breathing ability. Get the best flowing heads you can afford. If you're on a tight budget, there's lots of deals on good used aftermarket aluminum race heads -ie - Brodix, Canfield, etc. - that are superior to any stock or ported cast iron Chevy heads you can buy. For rocker arms, you should get some roller rockers . 'Gently used' ones are ok, but especially if your buying new, watch out for and avoid cheap Chinese-made, 'die-cast' aluminum rockers that are marketed by several U.S 'discount' parts vendors. They come in lot's of pretty colors but the the quality is not just poor, it's non-existant and they're basically junk. You want and need good 'extruded aluminum' ones from a reputable manufacturer - ie- Crane, Harland Sharp, Comp Cams, Crower or Isky, to name a few. Also, avoid any stamped steel rockers that only use a roller-tip, but still use the stock 'ball & stud' pivot. You want and need a true roller-bearing pivot as much or more than you need just the roller-tips. Also valve-train related - once the block's been machined and assembled and fitted with aftermarket heads and a cam, don't assume or expect that stock-length pushrods will work. Use a 'push-rod length checker' tool available from most cam manufacturers and double and triple check how the roller-tip on *each* rocker contacts *each* valve stem tip, through the whole camshaft lift-cycle - and then order pushrods in the appropriate length to get the rocker arm geometry right . Getting the valvetrain geometry correct by using the proper length pushrods is crucial on a high hp, high rpm SBC and it's something than is often overlooked. For a cam, if you're on a budget and have to buy new, your pretty much limited to a solid-lifter, flat-tappet cam. For 500 hp, that's do-able, but especially with s flat-tappet cam, it's critical you get exactly the right one for your combo. A better bet would would be a solid roller cam. but new, a solid roller, plus the lifters and the valve springs for it could end up being pretty spendy and blow your budget right out of the water. But used rollers cams - and roller lifters too, as long as they don't have any visible damage or wear, are a safe bet. But check the specs and if possible, contact the manufacturer to see if the cam is actually compatible with the rest of your combo and suitable for your intended usage and hoped for results, *before* you hand over any money. For a carb and intake, I'd definitely search out a deal on a used set-up, rather than buying new. For 500 hp, look for a race-orientated single plane intake like a Edelbrock Victor Jr, Brodix, Dart or similar. An 800 - 830 cfm Holley carb would work well with this combination too. For an ignition, an early - ie - 'non-computer-controlled' Chevy HEI distributor can work well, if it's modified. Lock out the vacuum advance and set the mechanical advance for about 36 to 38 degrees total and have it all in by about 2500 rpm. I'd also replace the stock module that's limited to about 5000 rpm, with either an MSD module and - or maybe better, eliminate the internal module altogether and simply use the HEI distributor to trigger either an MSD-6 or MSD-7 box. Add a good cap, rotor, coil and wires - ie - MSD or similar - and you should be good to go. If you don't have clearance for the large diameter HEI, a smaller diameter. but similarly modified. pre-'74 points-type-but converted to an electronic pick-up - Chevy distributor will work too. A complete aftermarket MSD or similar electronic distributor would be good, if you can find a deal on one, but it's not a necessity. Avoid the older 'very small diameter-cap' Mallory type distributors, as you really want the biggest diameter distributor cap you can run to avoid high-rpm spark scatter and crossfiring. You're going to need lots of good, mostly aftermarket small parts and biys and pieces - and *most critically* - spend some real money and time on proper machine work and assembly to complete the engine and have it make 500 hp and live, but that's basically how I'd do it. Mart3406 ==================
Hhahahahaahaha..cost effective ass kickers.. wonder why so many drag cars that win and go faster than most other makes use the SBC when its such a piece of "garbage" I love it when i go see a mustang shoot out and more then half of them, and all of those that win are running chevy sbc's as thier engine of choice a hemi would be nice..but as the guy said, hes working with an SBC..so maybe we should stick to what works for him? and obviously so many others or maybe we should go off on another tangent and tell him how to rebuild a merlin 12 cyl and how much better they are than the old POS SBC's or how many of those junk SBC;s are still out there on the road daily? Mart3406 is on it
"SBC's were mass-produced 'cost-effective' garbage..." Ahhh, consider me a conservationist ... a true recycler of sorts. Three of my cars are powered by "garbage" ...
OK BTL you owe me a keyboard. I love it when some fella jumps up and tries to dominate a thread and has no numbers to back up his BS. What does a stock rebuilt hemi put out anyway? 300-325 hp? How much does one weigh? 700+ lbs? I think the kid should build an SBC because I met Smokey Yuenic (sp) once. That's almost as good as having a friend that is a hemi guru isn't it? Bottom line is that the only belly button SBCs are crate motors, the rest of them built by hand by those who care about them really don't count as belly button motors. I seriously don't think that my little putt putt 355 counts as a belly botton motor. Maybe it does I just don't get out often enough to see another one like it. Don't mistake what I am saying for hemi bashing, I like a well built hemi as well as the next guy but I also like a well built 351 Clevland, and am well on my way to assembling a well built 394 Olds. The kid asked for advice on building an SBC. Maybe his dreams of 500 ponies on a budget are a dream but what he didn't ask for was advice on what engine to build. Just advice on building an SBC. I'm not usure what is getting older, Boomer bashing or Chebby bashing.
A mechanical roller cam is probably the way to go, Doug Herbert has some decent prices, and I'm happy with mine. Mart3406 pretty much covered it. The block you have is the best 4 bolt block, high nickel content etc. Cylinder heads are where the power is at, unless you are an expert porter go for aftermarket heads. Good luck on your small block.
we built a 383 stroker a few years back, balanced rotating assembly, all Scat, Brodex Track 1 heads, Comp 280 S cam(solid), victor jr intake, 780 holley double pumper, 1 3/4" Hooker supercomp headers- dynoed 475 hp 475 tq, that was a pretty mild cam in this, make sure you match the valve springs to the cam, the brodex heads came with springs for a solid roller-could bearly get them off. I would say once you get your short block done, and find GOOD heads, call comp cams and ask what they recommend. I was quite surprized when calling about a 406ci I wanted to do, I asked also about 500 hp but said wanted good tork also, and the cam was like 274 dur .500 lift. so you don't need a huge came if you have good heads& intake, I have a 280H in my 350 & makes 325 hp but I have mild ported 76cc smog heads. I bought the engine dyno software and you can really see your changes and where the power is on the graph. I wish I had gotton the cam program also, it will figure the perfect cam for your combo.
I've got a "belly button" motor and it's FAST AS HELL. Enough said. Let the kid build one first, and he'll learn a bunch of stuff so when he gets his HEMI, he can spend less because he'll know better....learning isn't cheap, but learning on a SBC can be affordable. Hey SixFour, it's your car, your build, your money. There's some great advice here, but in the end it's your project....
I mentioned the HEMI because the original poster said that he preferred one of those, and also said that he doesn't have the SBC yet.... People can build whatever the hell they want... I don't give a fuck... It's not my car or motor.... SBC's have proven themselves in a manner similar to the flathead Ford: they weren't the best things, but they were usable, and had the aftermarket following and were extremely easy to find..... If I had a car that came with one, I'd mess around with it, but I wouldn't put one into a ground-up build.... Like I said earlier, "fuck my opinion, build whatever you want"... If I have the answers to questions on whatever you chose, I'll gladly help out....
Well I got an awesome deal on my dream motor, a 58 392. So I'm gonna build it. I guess that whole "budget" idea is pretty much ou the window but it's something I will build over time. I'm super pumped to get working on it. And thank you everyone for the information. I really appreciate it.
Honestly...grab a SVO turbo 2.3 for that lil T and beat that day lights out of anything you come up against. They were easily 275HP and you can squeeze it more with a variable waste gate. Hide it all under the hood except a side hood air intake. It will be quiet and deadly...and be a daily driver.
It makes me happy to hear that.... I think that you will feel a lot better when you're all done and you turn that key, knowing it's firing up what you WANT, not your 'compromise".... PM me with any questions that you may have... I'm glad to help if I can.... Keep in mind that there are plenty of others on here with much more knowledge that I, and they will be willing to help as well.... That Hemi came factory with a forged crank and heads that are dead-on CC-wise... When you pull a head off, you will understand... Your combustion chambers aren't cast... No, they were machined...!!!! You don't need to mess with them at all... Take your time and learn as you go... Ask questions... And also understand that there will be a hundred conflicting opinions on how to build that motor... Listen to all of them and make your own decisions based on what you have been presented with.... If you take your time and do your own dirty work, you will save a lot of cash and have higher sense of accomplishment in the end..... I can tell you one thing: DYNAMIC COMPRESSION...!!! Static compression is a big deal, but if you want to run pump gas, make those heads breathe... You don't need to get aggressive in there, but some blending, polishing, and a 3-angle valve job is totally worth the effort.... You will have a lot of hours into it, but in the end, you'll thank yourself for doing it..... That's down the road a bit.... Just make sure that you're starting with a good core first.... This is a good time to call over a buddy that has been down this road before and knows what to look for during the initial tear-down.... Is it stuck..??? Are there spun bearings...??? Is it cracked...??? How do the valves look...??? Check the oil.... Is there water in there...??? Are the valve covers and intake manifold off, and is it full of leaves, debris, and rust...??? Why was it parked...??? A lot of that can be dealt with... Just make sure that you're starting with something that's usable without dropping a stack of Ben Franklins right off the bat..... Hemi's are pretty tough, so the odds are in your favor here..... -Jim
The Jalopy Journal
