Heat and drag would be created by the brakes against the calipes just trying to keep the axle in place. Side loads while cornering would make the situation much worse.
Not NHRA legal , must use an eliminator like the ones offered by many companies such as Strange or Moser. I install these all the time, not a big deal. If you have an off brand diff that you are using call a manufacturer and see what they can do for a custom unit. Good luck, Craig
using disc brakes on a cclip car is not a great deal. The reason is most discs only retract slightly when not applied. A c clip car has a small amount of in and out and will tend to drag some and wear the pads quicker.The extra clearance will also need a little more pedal travel to take up the slack, you may not notice it but it will be there. Best of luck.
Fact is, rear discs with C clip axles have been common from detroit for many years, ie, Ford Explorer, F-150, Crown Vic, etc., along with many/most GM and Chryslers. No unusual wear problems or pedal travel issues.
the pin still holds the axle in place with the c clip. the pin keeps the c clips from coming out. break a spider gear or pin and you CAN lose a axle....been there done that ...pretty interesting experience have you thought about switching axle ends and bearings ?
While obviously not an ideal situation, discs will hold the wheel in if a c-clip axle were to break. I twisted one off at an event a year ago and the discs held it in. Had I not had them it would have been disasterous. I did bend the caliper bolts and bracket, but they were replaced/straightened easily.
This man has it right. The disc will USUALLY keep disaster from happening if you break a C clip axle. Usually the brakes get wiped out when this happens but the quarter panel/car survives. NOT to be confused with running discs INSTEAD of a C-Clip. That would be a big no-no. rick.
I think you will find the C-clips are still used even on factory disc brake apps.I would not depend on the discs retaining any axle,JMO,ROY.
When GM went to C-clip rears for Firebirds and such, they went to special clips, I think select fit, to control axle endplay more tightly than they had been doing on C-clip drum cars. The amount of float allowed by earlier setup was indeed enough to be a problem for discs.
True...and made possible by the fact that side clearences have been tightened up on those vehicles. OEM can't take things for granted and then simply hope that it all works properly over the long haul. Lawyers prowl..... I've had C-clip equipped drum brake cars with a large amount of side play in the axles and common sense will tell you that extra play will force the piston of the caliper farther back and thus give a lower pedal, as the available volume of fluid MUST take up that additional space before clamping force can act on the rotor. Now, the ability of a single piston caliper to move back and forth on the sliders may make a difference (depending on the slider resistance), but ultimately the best thing would be to just eliminate as much axle play as possible. It's just another step in the process anyway...
Bruce is right, the end play on a disc brake rear end is very critical as it would cause a pulsation in the pedal with too much end play.
In that case tell me all about this process; i'm familiar with the general process and theory----a bearing gets pressed on to the axle, a retention device is put on the axle ends which prevents the axle from coming out. My target rears are either the 12bolt or more likely the 8.5/8.6 10 bolts. Looking at the kits available at Moser's, why would someone put a ford bearing on a gm axle?
You get a much larger (3.150) bearing and still retain the factory drum brakes or in your case disc. The drum backing plate would need milled out for the larger bearing size. C-clip eliminators are known for leaking too. The factory style 9" set up is a better deal if changing housing ends.
To confuse the issue further, i "understand" that the BOP/Cad 10 bolts did not use a "c" clip, but used the bearing retention method. Could i just interchange these components with the chevy 10 bolts?
The fact that you are asking suggests that you expect to be harder on your car than the c-clip design was intended for. Do you really want to use junkyard parts instead of dropping the $150 that a new set designed specific to your application will cost? I mean, I appreciate DIY thrifty, but some areas are more important than $150. If that is a struggle to pay, you probably don't need to be stressing parts anyway. Just sayin'...
Not all of the GM 10 bolt were bearing retention method. The "round" style covers were c-lock, the "cut out" (half moon notch inward in line with the axle tubes were the bearing retention type. They were referred to as a P or M type in the parts book. 8.5" was in the full size Pontiacs and the 8.2 was in the small Pontiacs. Later starting in 71 things got muddled. When GM started standardizing full size car components it was a crapshoot. Again in 77 when they redesigned the full size cars things started mixing up again. My 78 Buick Lesabre donor car had the 8.2 Pontiac rear axle. Hope this helps.
The process is pretty straightforward though there are differences in installation dependent upon the differential you have. Remove the axles from the housing and press the new bearing and retainer onto the axles. As long as the axles are out, not a bad idea to consider new or longer wheel studs. Remove the stock seals and bearings from the axle tube then cut the end off the axle tube at the specified distance. Typically the eliminators are going to be bolted to the housing using the brake assembly mounting flanges. Some flanges (metric GM diffs) may need to be modified by adding or enlarging mounting holes. Reinstall the brake assemblies, then install the eliminator adaptors and axles. Bolt the assembly together through the brake flanges. NHRA doesn't require c-clip eliminators for cars slower than 10.99 in the 1/4 unless the diff is locked (spool). I think they're a good idea for anyone that intends to do a burnout though. Every year I see cars spit an axle, usually slower street cars that have heavy wheel/ tire combos and they almost always do it on the burnout. Tire/ wheel contact w/ fenders is a fugly sight. Embarassing for the owner too. Good luck, Craig
Just in case there's any question as to why c-clip eliminators are a good idea, here's a pic of a typical c-clip failure. Yeah, it's a late model Mustang that runs high 12's at Bandimere. Not real fast but making enough power to blow an axle apart. This guy got lucky, not a lotta body damage. The fender did take some pretty good chunks outta the tire though, and @ $200 a piece that gets spendy.
i'll address that in a sec, but first i'm not sure what questions to ask because i don't know jack about rear axles. But i'm learning. i've just discovered that there are (and possibly the only type?) c-clip eliminator kits that use a "ford style" bearing? a) Why use a ford bearing or "ford style" bearing? b) Any other alternatives? c) How can you tell the difference?
C clip sheared off the end of the axle and allowed axle to walk under power which twisted/ broke the axle at the end of the side gear. Axle came out in 3 pieces. Kits use the Ford bearing because of the bearing diameter, it's pretty dang big. Offers a lot of bearing surface area which distributes load better. Not sure about alternatives to the Ford bearing. Determine differences by the inside and outside diameters. The problem w/ relying on a disc brake assembly to keep the axle from coming all the way out is that the forces generated when the axle moves outward will disrupt brake efficiency at that wheel. Yeah it'll save the fender but may point the car in the wrong direction. If you want to use the disc brake assembly as a retainer use a fixed caliper, not a floating caliper. I do not recommend this though, it really isn't a safe means of axle retention. NHRA requirements are outlined in the rulebook in section 4A and in general regulations. Doesn't matter how quick you intend to go, if you are running a heavy tire/ wheel combo and are going to do burnouts you want to consider eliminators. The OP is thinking smart. I do a whole lot more w/ race cars than I do w/ hot rods. I race, work tech at Bandimere on a volunteer basis, and modify/ build cars for drag racing and road course work. Don't give a shit about "traditional" or "image" when it comes to safety. Besides, the eliminators really aren't visible tough to tell they are in place. Good luck, Craig
to more accurately answer a): The ford bearings are a press fit to the axleshaft. The retainer is bolted to the end of the axlehousing tube. If a C-clip axle were to bust at the pumpkin, a ford bearing set up at the outboard end would keep the shaft, wheel, and tire from sliding out the tube and tearing up the car big time. -rick
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