When transferring the title on my '54 I came to realize it was titled by the engine #, not the VIN. Just wondering how common this mix up was?
I used to own a 39 Ford Std Coupe that was registered with the part number of the fan belt as a VIN. Those were the good old days
Very common. And not a mix-up. Several of the auto manufacturers used the engine number as the number on the title in the early years.
That was standard procedure for GM, Chrysler, and many others prior to about 1955. Fords were usually the exception, since they had numbers on the frame and nothing on the engine that was easy to check. It started with the Fords, though, as they had numbers on the engine in the T and A days, clearly visible to the officers, so it was easy to verify.
Had a lot of trouble with my '40 Plymouth. Title matched engine #, when I changed engine I realized there was no # on the car to match my title, how do I prove ownership in a theft? So I go to BMV, they send me to ISP, fill out forms, State Police inspection, and then I finally get a title marked like it's a kit or something. So now instead of my title showing me as the owner since '73, it reads purchased 2005. Wish I never stirred this up.
That's why I'm not sure what to do. I'm not 100% certain of I'm gonna eventually restore this one or tear it apart to make it a drag truck. So if I swap out the motor, it's basically got no title. It seems it's gonna be a headache regardless of which I do. The DMV doesn't recognize the 12 digit engine serial # as a VIN, but getting it changed is a pain in the ass too.
If you still have the engine with the number matching the title... I would think you could take it to the DMV and get them to put a tag on the frame or body that matches that number. I talked to the AZ DMV about this once, and they said they could do that as long as I had the engine that matched the title, installed in the car. To do this before I changed engines to avoid any problems later.
I've got a ton and a half truck that has the same thing going on with it and I'm not too worried at the moment. I'll get the title corrected when I get an engine in it and get it running. A bit of a pain in the butt but I'll just make an appointment with the inspection station and run up and get them to look at it. Luckily the 48 had engine change marked on the title when I bought it in Texas in 1973 so that one isn't an issue except the state of Washington spelled my name wrong on it. And I agree with Katonic Mike. If you have the old block with the correct number on it don't let it get away from you. No matter what shape it's in. Strip it down and make a coffee table base out of it if you need to but keep that block.
When I built my 41 Willys Sedan, the VIN was the engine serial number, I made a new firewall tag, and stamped the original numbers........no problem.
Yes, but New York is unusual in that no one ever inspects the VIN unless there's major questions about the car. Hell, NY doesn't even use titles on our cars. There has to be a procedure for this for the OP in Pennsylvania to get a title; I would do it now before I changed anything on the truck. It may be as simple as a State Police or dealer inspection to certify the serial number on the tag instead of the one on the block. I wouldn't say it was standard procedure for all carmakers before 1955, but the Ford Model T's only number of any kind was on the engine block, and that's basically what this stems from.
Back in the early 60's Uncle Sam sent me down to Texas from Oregon,,, I had a 50 Chev 2 door sedan with a 57 Pontiac engine,,Oregon title. I went to the DMV and changed the title to Texas,, To my surprise the Title returned to me as 57 Pontiac 4 door sedan. That was a can of worms to straighten out. Now the Texas law says title is to the frame.
Here's what I've learned thus far... 1. If you are buying a pre-1955 vehicle from out of state find out if the title matches the engine serial number or the frame/cab. 2. If it indeed matches the engine serial # it would be much easier for the current owner to have it switched before you buy it. 3. Dealing with the CA and PA DMVs simultaneously will make you mad. VERY mad. You will probably say bad words. Hope this saves someone a headache in the future. Mine's killing me.
Speaking for the Ford Model A's 1928-31 in the state of Illinois. If you purchase a car from out of state and try to register it here, the number on the FRAME must match the number on your title, Ill. no longer recognizes any firewall/frame TAGS or engine numbers and only the stamped number on the frame.DMV must verify that they match , some people will be required to remove the body from the frame, ( YES ) even on a assembled car to verify. Biggest concern will be if your numbered frame is already on a registered Illinois title then that person will be required to remove the body. CONFUSING !!!!!! Boils down to FRAME number must match the title, no engine/tag numbers. Only applies to newly registered cars and any previous registered cars will not have any problems unless a out of state title comes in with your current number on it. CONFUSING !!!
Intestering bit of History, with the Model T the number was stamped on the engine (no frame number). If your engine "died" then you could buy a new engine which had no number and the dealership was suposed to stamp your engine number on the new unstamped engine. I found out about this when I found a '14 block that had no number on it and did a little research.
After MANY MANY hours explaining this situation over and over again to non-car people at the DMV (car people at a DMV is unheard of, as we all know) it seems they are finally willing to believe me. Got a registration card in hand with the proper door jamb VIN and the title will be here in 7-10. Let's wait and see what number is on it...
It was a royal pain in the ass but I'm glad it's on it's way to being settled. As soon as that title is in hand with the right VIN on it I'm golden, and the gasser truck build can begin!!!
Some states titled the engine number, some the door jamb VIN. Some titled it as the year it was SOLD not MADE so you'll see folks with trucks like your's that they have titled as '54s but they are the split windowed trucks. It isn't uncommon at all. I have both types of titles on my AD trucks, just depends where they came from. At least here in MI, it doesn't suck to change YET. I'm sure it will sooner or later.
I've also heard of folks stamping the engine number onto a repro vin and putting it on the door jamb just so it matched the paperwork. That is not necessarily the best way to go!!
That's kinda what I was trying to avoid, but it almost came to that. It was bizarre to run into so much hassle trying to do the right thing. Almost like it was less believable that I'd try to be HONEST about this?! I'm surprised I handled it as well as I did. Ten years ago I might have had to be escorted out...
Reminds me of when my grandfather took a pair of early plates to DMV to have them checked so he could use them on his car. When he got there they were so amazed at the quality of the original plates (1914 I believe) that they asked his permission and showed them to everybody inside. About 2 weeks later he got a letter from DMV saying that he needed to bring them in to verify they were authentic!!!!
The Jalopy Journal
