Poboyross' Budget Model A Build....Sans the Model A :P

Budget is realitive also. No I don't consider that a rat per say but rather a work in progress . That said swapping in a sbc or a flat head engine and trans. into what has been a four ain't as easy as you make it sound , are you in that big a hurry so that you will do things over and over till you get what you really want. Take your time , plan it out save your bucks , wheel and deal and build it the way you really want it . Which ever way that may be. That said build it like you want, I just do not like doing things more than once, cheaper that way in the end.

 

Truer words have never been spoken. I killed myself on my banjo when it was rebuilt because I didn't pay attention to the first set of 3.54's that I had. I now have over $1200 in that dinky rear. Doing things twice only costs more money and more time which is very precious.

 

I agree with all of what's been said above; however, here's the crux:

-I have preferences, most of which are flexible. That usually goes directly against the grain of most guys on here. They have a "hate" list and a "love" list on most everything. I don't. I know the overall look that I want to get, and that's about all. I'm not a lifelong builder, so this process is quite organic for me. I don't rebuild things twice for the sake of expediency, only if I messed up by not catching something hidden. Measure twice, cut once....but Murphy lives!

I originally latched onto the inline 6 idea to be "different" and because I saw some possibilities...plus it was dirt cheap. However, upon further study....figuring out how much that set of 3 Weber side drafts was going to cost, what a firewall *that* recessed would entail, look like, and affect, I started rethinking it. I am really into the idea of good MPGs, as I'm a budget minded person in every other thing I do in life.

That kept me in the low buck, MPG, but fun mindset. I progressed to thinking about 4 bangers and other versions of the SBC. I know my 283, and I've got this PG...so why not stick with that if possible? I like some zip, but I like a traditional look. Hey, at least I'm not throwing a Toyota 4A-GE in there....cool looking, but not on my radar.

I think people mistake my lack of rock hard opinion on something to being wishy-washy or imprudent. the only thing that I'm set on having at this point is an A frame with 32 rails, and that's purely due to the look I want. Since I'm smart enough to know that it's better if I leave the frame fabbing to someone who does it for a living, it will be my only big buck item. Knowing which motor I'll be dropping in it will then determine length of the frame, mounts, etc.

 

If you can find a perimeter frame already made you might save yourself some cash there too. A '32 frame looks best just as it came out of Henry's factory. The wheel base should be left alone and with the exception of a center crossmember or "X" member it's a pretty simple formula. But yeah, the mounts and all will depend on the engine etc. I live and die by the rule that if you need more room for an engine then look no other place then the firewall. Moving other things like the wheel base and such only causes a slipper slope for the build to go right down the drain (for me at least). If you want a HEMI in your '29 roadster then you're going to need to give up some leg room. But an SBC should be your third safest choice behind 4 banger and a 59a Flathead. Even a 8ba will be longer then the SBC and require some modification to be done.

I like the idea of thei being "organic" as you stated. It's all new to me as well so opening my eyes to possibilities seems to happen on a daily basis all while zeroing in on my tastes and maturing I think. When I first set out to build my coupe I thought only about getting the car to sit lower with a HEMI in between the rails. Now I am looking at building my '33 without a drop axle sitting up high and mighty and a flathead in there. I've also come to appreciate restorations and such so it all progress' and you add and subtract to your "Love and Hate" boxes.

 

Stock Model A frames are not very strong even when boxed but with a few braces and crossmembers in the right places you should be OK with a mild inline. That said, it is fairly easy to fabricate a good frame using cheap 2" X 3" tubing.

Almost any open drive rear end with the correct width should be good enough with the 250 and unless you want the buggy spring suspension it would be simple to fabricate a four link with coil overs.

Check out some of the kits available from Welder Series, they make some real nice stuff that you weld the parts yourself and the quality is very good and price is reasonable.

 

Well, I think I've decided on a motor to roll with on the A. I'm going with a 305 I found locally that has allegedly been "rebuilt". I always let that word run off my back like water, so we'll see. It's got a decent intake and new carb, so that alone is worth close to the asking price for the whole motor. Comes complete from carb to pan, fan to flexplate. I trust the guy when he said it last ran 4 months ago, I'm *usually* a good judge of people...so we'll see. He was going to throw it in a Jeep for rock crawling, but decided to go a whole different direction instead with a big block.

I read Fat Hack's thread about 305s, in addition to having some good conversations with GimpysHotRods, and I think it might be a good balance in what I was looking for at the bottom of it all....decent power and decent MPGs. I'm not looking for a ripper, so I think it oughta do at least as good as a 4 banger or inline. Plus, it saves me on some firewall cutting and being able to get run of the mill engine mounts.

I also believe I'll continue chasing after that 283, because dang it, I just like them. I added up what I spent on building my last 283, and this 305 will come in at a third to half of what I spent on the other. I plan on hooking up the Powerglide from the 250 to the 305, too. Use it if I got it, I reckon!

I'll be picking up the motor most likely on Thursday, but tomorrow if the ice abates :/ Will this winter precipitation NEVER end?!?!?

 

Went down to South Jersey and picked up the 305, and I'm pretty happy with what I got. The fact that it spins over fine and it was in a running vehicle a couple of months ago makes me feel even better about it. For some reason, the kid decided to go with a 400 in a Jeep CJ....you got me as to why, oh well! Here are some pics (ones from the CL ad...got home too late to take some of my own):





Running the numbers on the block comes up as:

10 305 5.0 88-93 E/F V8 RWD; TBI/FI; roller lifters; center bolt valve covers; right hand dipstick; w or w/o fuel pump block off 14093627 14102058 14088526 14088535 14102187


It came with an Edelbrock Performer intake and a 1406 carb when I bought it.

Went to go store it at my buddy's garage, but he hadn't gotten to snow plowing...now it's ICE....DOH! Oh well...guess it gets to live in the bed for a few days, covered.

 

If it was originally an EFI engine, and it's the stock cam, it may not have the lobe on the front to drive a mechanical fuel pump. If it doesn't, that either means you will need to run an electric fuel pump, or change the cam. Just something to check on.

 

Good call. It has the blocking plate bolted on where the fuel pump would have been, it's removable but I haven't taken it off to see if it's even usable.

 

Sound like a great project, will keep an eye on this one!

 

Ok, I need some advice on frame setups. I'm wanting to get a pinched 32 frame from one of a small group of vendors; with Blackboard and JW Rod Garage being at the top of that list. I do not want to channel the body, and I'm concerned about what's involved in dicing up the rear portions of the subrails, wheel wells, etc when accommodating the 32 rails. I like the price of Blackboard, but I was liking the structure of the JW Rod Garage one, where it turns to an A frame at the rear. however, I'm assuming that means the car will ride much higher. I also realize that it may look weird on the car, with the rear of the frame looking like that. Blackboard's frame is pretty typical, so no need to post an image, but here's JW's:





I'd like to know opinions of those who have seen them, or something like them (I believe that Brookville's is pretty much the same, too) along with implications as it relates to lowering limitations, etc.

Brookville's:

 

I really like the look of the Brookville frame as it retains the bracing look and detail, I think it is a very nice peice, though may be spendy. I wish I had given this more thought on my ride, the tube has a negative appeal to a lot of guys. Are you going to end up cutting on one of these a lot to get to where you want to be suspension wise?

 

Yeah, they're definitely spendy. Blackboard's frame, which requires a lot of subrail work on the body, is $1800....big price difference.

I don't plan on cutting on them for any foreseeable reason. I only want to be concerned with things like motor mounts, bosses, etc. I just really like the look of the 32 rails. I guess a cheaper option would be to run a z'd A frame with the z in the rear, then use some side skirts to get closer to the "look".

 

You can find the dimensions for the frames on Wescotts website, they include pinched and un pinched 32 frames.

 

OH, and I finally found pics of this finished A:





It's pretty darn sweet IMO. However, I don't know if you could get that stance with the Brookville or JW style A frame w/32 rails.

 

From reading your thread, I think you are having an issue of being blinded/confused by "what if"s... Go out and sit with the body that you have, close your eyes, and get a clear vision in your head of what the end product will be... Lock that away in your mind, then reverse engineer the project step by step till you get back to where you are now... Once you have a firm grasp of what you have to do from the point you are at now, to where you are going, you can start looking at the "what ifs" and see how each what if will change the overall project, and evaluate the outcome... For most folks, it is impossible to build/complete something that you cant see in your head, it is what causes most unfinished projects to languish and fall by the wayside...

Drag

 

Good advice drag, make plan, stick to plan, make plan happen.

I like the new A from the R Bones boys...man! do their cars have attitude!

See more here:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=558201&highlight=rolling+bones

 

I think I had a "come to Jesus" moment today while helping a fellow NJ HAMB'r, Lorodz, visualize his coupester that's REALLY coming together well. Here's the thread, and you can see the rapid fire visualizing between the two of us on or about page 3 or 4.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=537213

In the process, I was able to work in some ideas that had been bouncing around in my head for some time, and it also helped that we were kinda thinking variations of the same thing. I hadn't really considered the use of a top to help balance out the "coupester weirdness", but I think it works well. It's on an A frame, 4" drop in the front, unknown drop in the back (he never mentioned it); however, I'd probably put a 2" kickup in mine. Open sides, skirts designed to look similar to the reveal on a deuce frame. Anyway....after doing his, I modded it just a bit towards my inclinations.....and I think this addresses all of my design ideas. Thoughts?

Without top...



With top...

 

Addition....

With the top folded:




Similarities with the Lieb roadster:



With the Lieb front end.....A grill surround (The flatter hood is more appealing to me than the taper you get with the 32...although I'm sure you could use an unchopped 32 grill and get the same effect:



I think it's settled...I've had enough time to stew about all issues...economics, style, etc. This is what I'm going to roll with...

 

damn! i can picture it! and i was looking at his build today n thinking about your build. looks like the gears are turning. nice!

 

how bout the one with the ladys in it? haha

 

word!

 

I'm glad that you've had that 'come to Jesus' moment I'm liking what I see,

Sub'd

OB

 

im glad ( jesus ) i can help...lol.....nah it will come to you first get ya frame all mocked up after that put ya body on and than just look at tons of books and pictures. i took a little of each car i seen and added it to mine ..and of course mine is far from done ...its my 4th build so im sure ill add somemore stuff

 

With the Lieb front end.....A grill surround (The flatter hood is more appealing to me than the taper you get with the 32...although I'm sure you could use an unchopped 32 grill and get the same effect:


if you use a 32 grille like i did and dont chop it it will look like it nose is in the air i checked mine before i chopped it and it looked stupid in my oppinon.

 

I agree on all points. I think that I might go for a painted A grill surround just like the Lieb roadster. I *really* like the look of the 32s, but for some reason, the A surround is calling to me. Once I saw that roadster and the build over on whatever hot rod site it was on, I thought "this IS the ticket". However, it'll be on MUCH more of a budget. I think the Lieb roadster was pretty much unlimited! I think Shine did it, didn't he?

 

not sure this is the 1st time ive ever seen it .... go with what you want if you cant afford top of the line than go with really good swap meet parts thats what i did the only thing i bought brand new was the grille shell and insert,all the hardware. all the brake parts excepth the backing plates and drums, tires, brake lines ,master, other than that everything is used or origanal. youll get there..and im sure it will look sweet ..keep us posted .

 

I like the concept! keep it up!

 

JWs stampings are real nice.the notch for the rear is stamped in.nice clean rails with good definition on swage etc.nice and straight and both sides seem very much the same.i understand some other manufacturers are using quite old dies,making them not so flash.
i didn't get mine direct but will vouch for their quality.

 

you guys are just to cool! Keep the motor running and the shinny side up!
Smoking