Model a chop question. Hoping for a quick answer.....

So, when re-attaching the windshield frame or a pillar as it is known.....Test subject 1930 model A coupe.

How do you line up the post? They are tapered so it's not a straight drop down. I was thinking I would use the inside of the post on the windshield frame side. Make that straight and square, that way the windshield fits. and pie cut the outsides to make them match.....that's all fine and dandy, but if I do that the other side doesn't line up. Should I cut them loose from each other?

I'd take pictures to better illustrate this, but I can't find my camera.

 

Found the camera

here is the drivers side lined up and tacked once.



and the passenger not tacked. the middle bar between the two is a little out of whack.



My welder is warmed up and I'm hot to trot......

I should also add that if I push the passenger side in so it lines up that the top is weird. I really think I need to disconnect the two pillars. But I wat to run it by a few of you.

 

OK, I'm no chop expert, I've only chopped one car- my old Model A Tudor.

I took 4" out of the A-pillar between the top hinge and the windscreen pivot thingy. Like you it didn't line up as good as I hoped. I made a few vertical slits with a cut off wheel above and below where I had to join it back together. I left the top in one piece.

The pillar tapered both up & down and front to back so the slits helped me line up the pillar so all sides matched good without having to pull one either in or out.

I was more concerned about getting all the window channels and windscreen hole lined up and tacked first, there is no point if the chop looks great but the windows don't fit properly.

Also I found doing it that way there was no noticeable bow or step in the pillars after. All sides continued straight like they were made that way.

I'm sure there is much more knowledgeable people on the subject but that worked good for me.

 

that's basically what I am planning. The problem is if I line up the inside of the windshield so it is square and straight on the drivers side. the passenger side is way out of whack. If I try and suck the passenger side of the post in so the bottom, where I will weld it is flush on the inside of the windshield frame. the top of it isn't square. It's like it is wider at the top of the a pillar vs. the bottom. I think it is because the metal piece that connects the two is messed up.

 

Mine was wider at the top of the A pillar vs. bottom, not sure how much. The pillars taper out as they go up, so you might have to try and center the windshield opening then encourage the pillars to line up.
If you try to just line up one side the other side is going to be off. Split the difference.

That's why I made the cuts above and below the join. Bit more welding, but smoother transition between the top and bottom. I had the roof clamped back on at the B pillar and pried open the slits slightly before I tacked it together.

I also remember the body being not very symmetrical either. Beltline was stamped about 1/4" lower than the window opening on one side. Made it a bit difficult to get measurements off and make sure it all ended up square.

 

Also it looks like you have cut yours a lot lower than I did. I took the 4" out closer to the top so I had a bit more movement to play with above & below the join.

 

So you are saying the actual opening for the windshield is not square?

 

I'm not sure I know what you mean there, but if your windshield frame opening was squared up and braced before you chopped it, then you just lower the top straight down, sit the A pillar tops back on the stationary bottom stumps and adjust it side to side until you've got the exact same missalignment on both sides, then like SixFive said, pie cut above and below the chop cut and play with it that way.

You can't line up one side flush and pull the other in, that'll make it crooked for sure.

Good luck man....it's only metal anyway....easy fix!

 

I think I get what you're talking about now....are you saying the steel panel, the header, across the top of the windshield opening was bent up and crooked before you chopped it?

 

I sold my A model a little while ago so I'm going from memory here but the pillars and windscreen had a subtle outward lean at the top both before and after I chopped it.

I just measured a stock A windscreen frame I've got here and it comes up about 1/2" wider at the top.

 

Thats true, they do get SLIGHTLY wider at the top versis the bottom. You will need to cut the header in the center and take a TINY bit out of the middle...

 

I should ad I did not chop this car. It was chopped by someone else and not braced. It's pretty fucked.

And yes the header piece between the two is bent. probably from being loose for 20 years.

 

Well, that would explain a lot. I was kinda thinking they might be wider. I think I might take most of it out and replace it with the straight piece from the rusty A pick up cab cowl i have....just about the only good piece on it.

 

I think I'm going to cut the two pillars apart and weld them on by themselves. I should also ad the my roof is not attached to the A pillars either.

here is what I am working with, except I removed the door top.





It's surprisingly square.... considering the lack of bracing.

 

You could do each A pillar one at a time, but when you go to attach the rest of the roof, make sure everything is square and braced or you'll fight it from then on out

 

I think my plan at this point is to split the a pillars. I will build the car from the A pillars back, so It's pretty important to get those right. After that I either need to attach the top or replace the subframe. I'm. not sure which direction to go with that. either way the back portion is going to get braced, So that is next on the list.

 

I've seen people just make a simple cut on either end , then spreading the cut open or closing it to accommodate the taper.

 

I should have never bought this pos body.

 

I'm going back to the garage to start welding and cutting. I'm going with the if it looks right, the body lines are close, and the doors open its probably perfect rule.

 

I had to use a bottle jack and a pipe to spread mine apart after the chop... I read the tip in Tex Smith's book.... I do not have a pic, but it was as simple as a sidways jack and a piece of pipe to spread things apart...

then I had to make the virtical "pie" cut mentioned earlyer...

 

I chopped my 31 5 inches and as others have said the windshield opening is wider at the top than the bottom stock. So when I did mine I did as Chris stated, I narrowed the top header panel. That allowed me to keep the upper door hinges in alignment but it also requires the windshield frame and the visor to be narrowed a like amount. I don't remember the exact amount but it's not much. Maybe around a half inch or less. I know a lot of others are going to say I am full of it, just pull them in and weld them, but I just prefered to have everything line up. I also drilled out the spot welds in the skin of the "A" pillers and removed parts of the outer skin to allow me to get in and weld the inner "A" piller structure solid. Just my two cents and the way that I did it. Lots of options to accomplish this.

 

In the end it's only going to be as good or better as Ford originally had it.
I was shocked at how far out everything was on mine, an original un-touched body. If the doors swing and the windows fit back in everything else is just a bit of fiddling around.

It seems there is a million different ways of chopping a model A, It's a bit harder when you have to put back together someone else's way of doing it.

Hope it all works out for you. I'd guess that's why the previous owner gave up when it didn't just drop right back on. But keep at it and it'll work out for you.. Gonna be very cool when it's all done.

Let us know how it goes!

 

So knowing that the windshield pillar is wider at the top was the key......I just went for it. The windshield frame is now tacked on both sides and the top is now tacked at the b pillar and the back. First time this old girl has been in 1 piece in 20-25 years.....

and guess what.....the passenger door opens and closes pretty well now too.

This is awesome.

 

Awesome dude. Model A's are your friend....over lapping doors, swing out windshield and a cloth top make em VERY easy to chop and NOT have it come out perfect. Not saying your doing a hack job, but it just means it will be easier for you to put together this car over just about any other type of car.

Besides, your off easy, heres my 34 roadster that I paid A LOT for

 

Oh it's a hack job alright......We both know this thing is lucky it's not a coupester.

 

Tomorrow calls for bracing the body and fixing the subrails.

 

From the looks of your pic you did not brace the body before cuting the top off of it....I would fit the doors back on there and get them opening and closing good, And your belt line flowing nicely before I put the top back on it solid...then brace the body up and then fit your top back together.....otherwise You may have to cut, splice, and tweek the shit out of your doors to ever get them to fit decent again...just my 2 cents.....there are some really good books on choping model A's you can checkout at most library's.....I do not want you to think I am telling what to or not to do...I am just trying to save you some trouble That I see alot when guys just jump into this.....There is a little more to it than just taking a hack saw and removing 4 inches from the top....LOL

 

I did not cut the top off. It was the PO. But yes, it was not braced. The top has to go on for the doors to fit otherwise it will collapse in on it's self. With just what I did tonight, The passenger door is already fitting way better. I can actually open and shut it without pulling up on it. Nothing will be finished welded until everything is where I want it.

Do you know any of the names of the model A chop books? thanks.

 

Man it has been years But I think it was tex smith "how to chop tops" Also there is some really good tech articles on chopping model A tops in the older street rodder mags (from the 70's) before they turned into a parts catalog..LOL....I would bet some of the members here would know better than I....My memory just ain't worth a damn anymore....LOL

 

When I chopped my Tudor, I tacked the doors to the body and braced below them. As Chris mentioned, I needed to cut the header panel and bring the tops in.once the B pillars and rear was tacked up.