I Smell a Rat: the True Creator of Lowbrow Arts Iconic RAT FINK Revealed

As a musician that has songs that are copywritten, I can say it don't mean shit. If I play the riff at one tempo and the guy I stole it from played it faster, that's the same deal as fat rat - skinny mouse. I was talking to one of the guys I idolized as a teen dork guitar player. I said "I stole so many riffs from you, thanks a lot!" He said "Gimme your CD and let me steal from you." We both laughed, I gave him a copy of my disc, and sure enough--he did steal some of my riffs!--which is odd because I stole one of them from John Lee Hooker! That's the thing about art, the line between inspiration and plagerism is a fine one indeed...

 

oh man, someone ripped off the shit i ripped off.

 

Freaking sweet!Another bandwagon to jump on. We've had Barris hating, now we have Ed Roth hating. And I'll take it guess that most of it will come from people who have given the world precisely Dick.
Big Daddy RIP
Paul

 

Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!

 

I thought Gary Fisher invented Rat Fink!?

 

Why now?

 

If Roth had stolen Von Dutch's idea, he'd have kicked his ass and that would be the end of it........

50 years too late.......end of story

 

http://www.mousestudios.com/about/

Mouse was/is a brilliant artist.
Roth and Barris were self promoters.

If you look at "Freddy Flypogger", and the Stanley Mouse logo,
you'll see where Rat Fink came from. The body is Freddy Flypogger,
the head is from the Mouse logo, only enlarged. Simple as that.
The only question was who actually put them together.

 

Didn't this topic hit the HAMB about 3 years ago?

 

How is this thread still open? Ohhhh the drama..........

 

A member of Monte's gallery of fine art...read the book by Bill Selby.

 

I know how Monte feels! I am the one that invented the internet but that fuckin Al Gore stole it from me!..Crooked bastard!

 

They say Ray Crock, we say McDonalds.

Its still a hamburger..

 

http://imprint.printmag.com/daily-heller/decal-is-de-message/

 

i was trying to draw a rat fink in jr.high art class my teacher went nuts saying he origionally drew rat fink an roth stole it from him........whatever.....highly doubt it where is this monte dudes origional rendering of rat fink? i don't think his other art work looks as refined as monster stuff from the 60s that came from roths studio

 

Sort of reminds me of THE SIMPSONS episode where all heck breaks loose regarding the question of who was the true originator of "Itchy& Scratchy" or something like that... Ed "Big Daddy" Roth appeared to me as being a pretty nice guy from the brief time I encountered him... The "OVATION" channel is running a quirky documentary about the guy that's not too bad-- And actually, the tackiest part of the program is when the producers insist that Roth is responsible for influencing lots of our current culture, to the point where it gets kind of annoying-- I mean, yeah, "Big Daddy" played a huge role in the grand scheme of car/pop culture stuff, but gee whiz, whatever.. I guess the whole irritating "who influenced who" debate among artists of all types, will always remain the icky side of documenting their histories... "The Doc" (Celebrity Drag Racing Authority & Visionary)...

P.S. a brand spanking new youtube video w/yours truly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKKoCL4IKFA

 

Well actually "The Rat Fink" was or is a certain mechanic in KC,MO the ripped the Mr. Roth off. The story goes that a local mechanic had some dealing with Mr. Roth and did him dirty. Roth said he was a fink and not just a fink but a rat fink. At least that's how Mr Roth related the story to me the last time we were together. I don't know how the actually picture came about but at least that's where the name came from.

Of course Mr. Roth was pretty old the last time I saw him and he could have been mistaken. When I go to be with him and the rest of the fellas I'll ask and get back with you. There is the HAMB in the after life isnt there?

 

Drama? where? i see people talkin about it, taking sides, and opining on what they hold true... but no drama as of yet... note i said YET

not any time real soon bud. not real soon at all.

 

Ed's OK, Franco rules!

 

Well I'm livin' on borrowed time as are most of us but I'm hangin' on. I got a couple of cars to finish and a lot of visitin' with a little ol cheroke woman yet to do.

Aside from playing cars with my friends. Don't sweat it I'll be the last man standing I always am.

Hey when are you comming to visit? If you don't hurry we'll be up in North Central Missouri and the only sites to see will be two lane blacktop.

Oh yea back to the drama, did any of you know that I invented Cal Track Bars when I was in highschool? And I did draw a picture of palm trees with blue fronds when I was in kiddygarter.

 

And let's not forget Karl Smith, aka Big Daddy Rat who claimed that Roth ripped him off! But his artwork was done by Henry Gerson Jr.

<DT>GERSON CREATED THE ORIGINAL ARTWORK AND LOGO FOR THE "RAT'S HOLE"....STARTING THE ORIGINAL SHOP IN DAYTONA BEACH IN 1967 WITH KARL SMITH..... DOING ALL OF THE ORIGINAL T-SHIRT DESIGNS......(THE ORIGINAL RAT DESIGN CREATED BY GERSON IS STILL USED BY KARL'S SON TED TO PROMOTE BIG DADDY RAT'S CUSTOM CHOPPER SHOWS). </DT>​

 

There's more to Roth than that Rat character.
The man should be remembered for "The Outlaw" & "The Beatnik Bandit" alone,
not to mention "The Mysterion" & "The Road Agent".
When it comes to custom cars in the late 50's early 60's ..he was so outside the box with the designs ..he was to cars what Hendrix was to guitar players.
Stanley Mouse may have a legitimate gripe about the art & shirts, but they weren't the only ones doing them, just the best known.
Lot of monster / horror movie / sci-fi stuff back then.
Roth may have done his first car to gain entry into the shows to make money on the shirts, but before long the royalties from the cars via Revell probably outstripped the money from the shirts....lot of model kits went into kid's hands...mine included.
The Stanley Mouse vs Ed Roth Rat Fink thing is a Tempest in a Tea Cup.

P.S. Inspiration comes from many sources..I still think R.Crumb's style is based on stuff that was done in the thirties...my sister had a children's joke & riddle
book that I'd swear was illustrated by Crumb but it was published well before he was even born.

 

You snooze you lose! Case closed Roth wins! AGAIN!

 

Hits about every couple fo years. This is an old thread there is a newer one on the same subject.

I have heard that Von Dutch invented flames, as well as the pinstripe tattoo. Anytime someone does anything someone will come along and want to be the first.

 

For anybody that's interested In Roth, saw a book the other day ( I happened to be in Books-a-million) and it had a 2011 publishing date. Lots of cool old pics.