Say you're hauling ass down the freeway in you 3500 lb custom, and your brakes fail, completely, no pedal at all And it's somewhere bad, like headed down cabbage hill on I-84 west, long and steep and a couple big turns away from the next escape ramp What emegency brake combination would YOU want to have installed at that moment? Is any conventional "emergency" brake going to slow you down you at this point? What turned "emergency" brakes into "parking" brakes anyway?
i have lokar set up in my falcon. i holds well on hills. i havent tried ripping on it at speed though.
I posted the following in a similar discussion here recently: Pinion brakes have been used on some older cars and routinely used on trucks. Being on the input of the ring & pinion vastly increases the brake's effectiveness. It is relatively easy to lock the rear wheels with this type of brake. The biggest down sides of a pinion brake are; - Weight added to input side of the ring & pinion has a greater inertia effect than weight added to output side of the rear end. - In most cases, increased unsprung weight. - If the vehicle has an open diff, and the parking/emergency brake locks the rear wheels, under some conditions a pinion brake makes the vehicle more likely to spin out then with comparable wheel brakes. - If one wheel looses traction the vehicle won't stop as well with a pinion brake as it would with wheel brakes.
I want a huge bag of marshmallows that (spring-loaded) I can throw in front of the car. Kind of like an airbag for the whole car, but softer. And tastier too.
Hester: My up date on brakes is to install duel master cylinders as soon as possible on any car I own. Not real hard to do and mostly protects against the brake failure you discribe. Cable to rear brakes is my choice for "E" brakes. Was in Halfway Sat. during the snow storm. I'm in Baker City stop by and visit sometime. My shop is on 14th and Carter! Ter409
Cabbage hill has eaten a lot of trucks before they had jake brakes and runaway ramps! In an emergency I would definately NOT want a Chrysler style driveline brake...have you ever tried jerking the handle on one while rolling?...bounces like a rabbit and then you loose the driveline and have not even compression to help slow you down....Probably your best bet is a dual master cylinder so you won't loose total braking...nothing wrong with rear cable/drum emergency if they're adjusted up...(Now as a PARKING Brake,you can't beat the Chrysler style )
I have a preference for whatever the factory designed to work with whatever setup you are running. I run a pinion brake (disc) on the salt flat car, works great, but was the least crummy compromise. X2 on a dual chamber master, nothing like a past brake failure to make you a believer in good brakes.
Of course in the situation you describe, if I were driving at the time, the vehicle would likely high center on the copious fecal dishcarge from the vicinity of the driver's seat.
Cable brake on rear drums, stock. Adjusted correctly. I test mine to see if it will stop me from 40 mph every once in a while. It does.
Yeah I think that's your best bet, big rear drum brakes with a cable operated parking brake and *adjusted correctly*. I don't think it's going to do much for you at 65 mph in a heavy car. Your only option is to down shift and look for a place to land. The parking brake will start to help when you get down to 35-40 mph. I think you just start looking for ways to mitigate the damage. Can you pull onto the shoulder? grind the wheels against the curb/divider? guardrail? Hit a car that has the *least* speed difference so the impact will be lessened? You just don't want to hit anything stationary directly. The sudden stop is a *****. Never ever hit a damn tree. It's unbelieveable how a car will wrap around a tree that doesn't even look very big. Honestly though if you don't drive like an a-hole and you don't manage to pull the master cylinder rod out (seen it happen) then you'll probably be fine if you remember to dowwwn shift and pump the hell out of the brakes. Hopefully you've been driving defensively and leaving a ton of braking distance between you and the next car. Oh, and honk the horn. They'll probably just flip you off but someone might realize you're having trouble and get out the way.
I've been thinking about this some more, you could upgrade the drums to the largest that would fit, with a performance lining (I like Porterfield R4S compound myself, but I don't know if it's still available). I've heard of drilling the drums, and the backing plates for cooling, here. I know it's for an AMC, but it should work the same (on parts that fit). But the absolute best "emergency brake" would be on the front. I know, but it's been done, Volvo did that for a while. I don't know what you have for front brakes, but if they're drums, you could use backing plates for the rear, and add the E brake mechanism and cables for rear brakes (with apropriate shoes). If they're discs, you could either use mechanical calipers with cables, or small hydraulics (ie Wilwood Dynalite) powered by a go kart master (or two) with a large enough handle to pull on it directly; maybe hide it under the driver's seat with the handle reachable, but not showing, and the most agressive pads available (as you won't use them except in an emergency). Pry the pads back a tiny bit after you test them (or use them) so you aren't boiling the brakes just driving down the road. I still prefer a dual pot master though.
Dual master cylinders go on every thing I put together. I've had my share of popped wheel cylinders, brake lines and failed master cylinders and running a single master cylinder is rather like asking for problems these days. Outside of an occasional broken hose or line that gets rubbed through the rest of the brake hydraulic system usually gives a bit of notice that you are going to have problems before the big problem happens. That includes having to add brake fluid on a regular basis or seeing fluid show up on the inside of a tire or around the master cylinder. I'd have to agree that the best emergency brakes are what the factory installed on the axle you are running to begin with.
For front disc emergency brakes get GM calipers with built-in emergency/park brakes. I'm pretty sure the old style (late 80s/early 90s Caddys) will fit in place of a standard caliper. You just have to remember to use the park brakes on occasion so they stay adjusted. Subaru also used front emergency/park brakes on some models. I know my 88 or so "Loyale" had them, not sure if the 1993 2WD Legacy (last year for 2WD Subaru in the US) had them on front or not.
Lost my brakes on a switch back between Tillimook and Astoria once. The stock original E brake in my old buick worked just fine. I like an E brake that just makes my rears into mechanical, keep it adjusted and unless you just happen to blow the rear shoes you're golden. In over 40 years I have never blown the rear shoes.
Alfasud and a few of its derivatives had the handbrake on the front wheels. For rear discs I much prefer the "German" pattern of little drums inside the disc centres to the usual variously hydraulic and mechanical calipers. Very German, the idea of one function, one part - the French would try to hold the entire car together with a single long bolt - but some non-German cars have handbrakes like that these days. The way I was taught emergency stopping is: 1. emergency brake (gently), 2. downshift through the gears to 2nd, 3. shift into 1st and kill ignition before releasing clutch. Of course that implies a real gearbox ...
My Hudsons had mechanical backup on the same pedal linkage as the hydraulic, designed to operate if the pedal dropped due to system failure. Actuated the rear brakes and worked quite well if properly adjusted and maintained. I kept the single master cylinder (completely rebuilt with all new lines, hoses and cylinders) for many years and never had a problem.
The Jalopy Journal
